Homeowners doing their own work

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c2500 said:
In South Carolina, homeowners are allowed to do their own work. The only stipulation is that they have to reside in the premise for two years from the date of final inspection. They even sign a document agreeing to this. Ironically, the enforcement of permits is the city or county. The SC Residential Builders Commission would have to enforce the law if the person lied on their application. (I have been told by a city official they do not enforce the law...but have not verified yet.) A house in my neighborhood is currently being hack remodeled, and the owner lied to get the permit. He plans to sell when completed I am curious as to how other states handle this issue?

Thanks,

c2500
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We have volunteer fire departments here in the northwoods.:smile:
 
iaov said:
We have volunteer fire departments here in the northwoods.:smile:
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We have volunteer fire dept here as well and you know what really sucks is the pager goes off and the guy I work with takes off to the fire truck and low and behold it was his house on fire..sucks to be on volunteer list that day..they were able to safe most of the structure..chimey fire..not an electrical fire thank goodness..:smile:
 
Random Thoughts on the Subject

Random Thoughts on the Subject

dSilanskas said:
In Massachusetts homeowners are allowed to do there own electrical no matter how long they have lived in the house. But they are not allowed to do there own plumbing. Very odd you can get killed doing electrical and have a leak doing plumbing. :rolleyes:
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The question of a homeowner doing work on his own home causes me to stop and think.
Allow me to burn your ear with my thoughts.

Ideally, we do not want to have government interference in our lives. But, we have found it neccessary to enact and enforce laws to protect and ensure the public safety and general well-being.
In this instance, how do we balance the right of an indivdual to do as he pleases with his own property with he impact that shoddy wokmanship could have on public safety, or the health and well-being of subsequent owners?
Personally, I feel that it should be legal for a homeowner to do work on his own single family residence, subject to permitting and inspection.
Further, there should be legal safeguards in place to protect subsequent owners. Even though such safeguards could exist, people need to realize that life involves risk and that they cannot expect the legal system to shield them 100 percent. Anyone who expects 100% protection from the government must realize that they would need to give up much of their own personal freedom.
How do we do all this? Good question!

Certainly, anyone doing electrical or plumbing work should be licensed. But, even then, life is uncertain. I've seen bad work done by licensed people.

Here, in Massachusetts, electricians need to go a code update class, and partake of some other continuing education, in order to renew their license every three years. In classes that I have gone to, the instructor has, at times, touched upon certain issues where the electrical trade interacts with other trades.
Do other trades have such a requirement?
I've seen an instance where a licensed plumber replaced the old metal water service pipe, for a house, with a plastic pipe. He connected the old grounding electrode conductor to an 18" long piece of copper tubing, stuck it the ground near the water entrance, and called the job done. It should have been part of his responsibilty to at least recognize the problem and inform the homeowner of the situation.

When laws are written, we need to watch whether public safety or politics is the overiding concern. Are trade groups more interested in promoting good work, or protecting their own piece of the pie?
I remember reading in the newspaper, a long time ago, about a situation in a neighboring state. It seemed that pipefitters could easily get a plumber's license, but, plumbers had a hard time getting a pipefitter's license. Reading further, I found that one of the people on the board, that was responsible for granting these licenses, had been the business agent for the pipefitter's union.
 
In the old days, you built a home, you did the wiring yourself maybe, and you stayed there till you died after your retirement from your steady job for life at the plant. Now the plant is shut down or moved to China. And hardly anybody stays in one spot long anymore. So in my opinion it is a foolhardy thing to allow a homeowner to do his own wiring, since in all likelyhood he/she won't keep it for more than 6 or 7 years and then sell it to some unwary sucker. And around here we all know how well the buyer's home inspector is going to be at locating true electrical problems other than double wires in a single pole breaker lug. I don't like goverment intrusion either, but I also don't like it when bad products get sold to unwary buyers. I think homeowner wiring should be outlawed. Same goes for running gas piping.
 
macmikeman said:
in all likelyhood he/she won't keep it for more than 6 or 7 years and then sell it to some unwary sucker.
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And therein lies the reason why permits and inspections should be required, no matter who does the work. A man's home may be his castle if it is out in the middle of nowhere surrounded by a moat. He can sell it to another castle dweller with the understanding that it was built by and to the original owners own sub-par standards. Then burn it to the ground, if that's what you want to do.

On the other hand if you put that same castle in the midst of other homes that were built to a higher building standard and try and sell it to anyone in the general public.....you have a real problem. It is the responsibility of a township's building dept to assure that a house (or building) was built (at the very least) to a specific standard. There are some towns here in NJ that require an inspection by the building dept before a sale to another homeowner goes through. If they find any work that they suspect was done without a permit they will ask that a permit be produced or rip out whatever was done (including something as small as whether a fan brace was installed for a paddle fan).
 
I have always assumed when I buy anything it is my responsibility to determine the condition of that item.

I don't have to buy anything I do not choose to.
 
iwire said:
I have always assumed when I buy anything it is my responsibility to determine the condition of that item.

I don't have to buy anything I do not choose to.
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It would be my guess Bob, that if you bought a home from a Diy electrical wizard like the type I always get to go in to fix up after that you would probably find about *20,190 or so things that did not meet the code at the time of the install.


*(approx post count as of about 2 minutes ago, may have increased dramatically in the interim.):grin:
 
macmikeman said:
So in my opinion it is a foolhardy thing to allow a homeowner to do his own wiring, since in all likelyhood he/she won't keep it for more than 6 or 7 years and then sell it to some unwary sucker.
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There is nothing to stop a potential homebuyer from asking if the selling HO did any of the electrical/plumbing/carpentry work themselves, or to verify it was inspected and approved. And nothing stops the unwary sucker from hiring their own inspection company.

And around here we all know how well the buyer's home inspector is going to be at locating true electrical problems other than double wires in a single pole breaker lug.
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It would be the buyer's choice to hire a home inspector who doesn't look too closely. Nothing stops the buyer from having a forensic anaylisis dig deeper into the home's systems either. It's just a cost-benefit equation.

How many HO's purchased a home incorrectly wired or plumbed by the previous HO and met with disaster?

I don't like goverment intrusion either, but I also don't like it when bad products get sold to unwary buyers.
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Well you have to choose one. Those who want both freedom AND safety/protection deserve neither.

I think homeowner wiring should be outlawed. Same goes for running gas piping.
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People should have the freedom to do things themselves, from gas piping, building or tuning their own cars, brakes, install pools and swingsets, landscape and plant trees, electrical wiring, sprinkler systems, plumbing, without having to hire professional services.
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
Well you have to choose one. Those who want both freedom AND safety/protection deserve neither.

People should have the freedom to do things themselves, from gas piping, building or tuning their own cars, brakes, install pools and swingsets, landscape and plant trees, electrical wiring, sprinkler systems, plumbing, without having to hire professional services.
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So Lawnguy, if I buy the empty lot next to the schoolyard where your kids play at recess and build my own nuclear power and chemical plant, me doing all the work, without benifit of any goverment oversight you would be ok with that right ?
 
macmikeman said:
It would be my guess Bob, that if you bought a home from a Diy electrical wizard like the type I always get to go in to fix up after that you would probably find about *20,190 or so things that did not meet the code at the time of the install.


*(approx post count as of about 2 minutes ago, may have increased dramatically in the interim.):grin:
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But more than likely, many of those violations will be obvious, or without having to dig too deep. You wouldn't purchase a new car you couldn't start, or with a scratch across the hood. Purchasing a home should include some reasonable degree of looking into it and examining it thoroughly.

I liken this argument to another issue that's unfolding in a neighborhood in my town - 250 new homeowners are protesting the locating of a power plant on industrial property right next to their development. I cannot fathom ANYONE purchasing a property without going to the local hall of records and checking out what the surrounding undeveloped property is zoned for. Yet new homeowners do this repeatedly.

Suckers.
 
macmikeman said:
build my own nuclear power and chemical plant, me doing all the work, without benifit of any goverment oversight you would be ok with that right ?
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That is not even close to the next door neighbor re-wiring their home.

As much as I support homeowners right to work on their own home I would not support their right to heat their pool with a home built reactor. :grin:
 
macmikeman said:
So Lawnguy, if I buy the empty lot next to the schoolyard where your kids play at recess and build my own nuclear power and chemical plant, me doing all the work, without benifit of any goverment oversight you would be ok with that right ?
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NO, because it's not your home. In addition, even if your plumbing, gas line and electrical skills were questionable, your work would still be subject to permits and inspections.

And in areas where perhaps no permits are necessary... well then If I had a problem with what a neighbor was doing I could always choose to not live in an area like that.
 
I went to look at a job today. Its a two family home with a lawyers office on the ground floor, and two apartments. One on the second floor and one on the third. The most I could get from the spanish speaking fellow(custodian of some sort) is that they need to rewire the apartments because they are having problems with many of the outlets. The wiring is knob and tube/ some BX and some romex. The ceiling on the first floor is a drop with about a foot of space. the office on the first floor looks like it had a lot of work done to it because from the basement I can see alot of new circuts going to it.
Now lets just say that the house needs to be rewired because of damage to the wires from rodents or what ever how would you price something like this? would you do it by the piece or hour? Lets say in total it would involve 60 openings (whether its outlets, switches or lights).
I would also plan on running some new circuts from the basement via the outside in emt to each floor.
I didnt really get a good look at the total building. The law office was closed today.
Any help advice would be appreciated
Whoops ..... how did i wind up in someone elses post. I thought I started a new post? sorry
 
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