Honda generators and neutral bonding

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mdshunk

mdshunk

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A thread the other day rang a bell about some of the portable generators used for backup power to homes. They're typically wheeled or man-carried types removed from a storage space and plugged into an inlet on the outside of the home to provide power during outages. Some of these generators, Honda and Arctic Cat in particular, are neutral bonded to the frame at the generator. Since these generators GFCI protect every receptacle, and your service at the home is also neutral bonded, the GFCI will immediately trip. For that reason, Honda and the other similar generator manufacturers ask you to remove the neutral-to-frame bonding strap at the generator. They also ask you to affix a sticker indicating that this procedure was done. How's this square with the NEC? I seem to think it's fine, as long as the neutral is not switched by the transfer equipment.

Find attached images of the Honda sticker to be affixed when the neutral to frame bond is removed, and an attached PDF of Honda Service Bulletin #20, which outlines the simple procedure to remove the bonding jumper. This bulletin is sorta hard to come by, and might be something to print out and keep on your truck if you do service.

P1010182.jpg


P1010183.jpg
 
Marc,

You seem to be asking if it is OK to remove the neutral/ground bond at the generator for a non-SDS. I would have thought it was required to remove this bond, or else, there would be a parallel path for the neutral current over the EGC and generator frame. I can't find a specific code that requires this, but it just seems to make sense.

What do you think?

Thanks,

Mark
 
I wonder if everyone could be made happy by installing a switch for making and breaking this bond depending on the need. Switch closed for job-site use, switch open for home use.
 
Larry,

I was trying to find the code that would require disconnecting the bond for home use. It doesn't seem to be in the 250.34 section. It seems like it should be the same as the rule in 250.24 for services. Do you know where this is required?

Thanks,

Mark
 
I am with Larry because if you remove the bonded neutral it becomes a violation for the rest of the usages and more often then not the generator is not just a single usage item..So if you remove the bonding jumper then who is responsible when it is used camping and the bonding jumper is suppose to be in place..Just asking and curious if another method could be utilized..must research it..
 
R Bob said:
Marc,

I recently ran across a Honda portable that had a sticker that caught my eye, it said "FLOATING NEUTRAL"
Click to expand...
Yeah, I saw a generic generator at a store over the weekend that had a Honda motor, but was not a "Honda" generator. It also featured the "floating neutral" sticker. Might be a UL requirement now to affix such labels, maybe?
 
MD Thanks for the info. I'll send those pictures along to Mike Holt, he has some great graphics on generators
Are portable generators UL listed?
How does this square with the NEC? The 2008 NEC will require portable generators to have GFCI protection. Much discussed at the IAEI code change meeting, with the comment that transfering the neutral will solve this problem for generators!
 
I've made it a point to look closer at the generators that have the big "floating neutral" markings on them. They all have a big stud with a nut on the outside with the instruction to connect it to a driven electrode. The generator is marketed as "portable" and it comes on wheels. Sure, I bet people will drive a rod.
 
nuetral ground bonding on genset systems

nuetral ground bonding on genset systems

i have generator powered system which is bonded together nuetral and ground at the generator .thegrounding grid for fuel tank and genset,MDP and individual panels for building are all of one grounding system .



Question : at what points more in MDP and individual structure building panels do i need to bond or tie the nuetral conductor with the grounding conductor if at the genset the nuetral and ground tied together ? I am getting different answers from building inspectors and electrical engineers and electricians on this issue . we would love your response
 
After making the modification to the neutral bond would you say it is not as safe when used in other circumstances like camping, etc, and if so would dropping a rod at those times fix the issue?
 
ram11379 said:
After making the modification to the neutral bond would you say it is not as safe when used in other circumstances like camping, etc, and if so would dropping a rod at those times fix the issue?
Click to expand...

One of three choices comes to mind here;

Use the generator as a back up for the supply only with the neutral disconnected

Or

Use the generator as a portable generator and not a back up

Or

Disconnect and reconnect as needed for the application.
 
jwelectric said:
One of three choices comes to mind here;

Use the generator as a back up for the supply only with the neutral disconnected

Or

Use the generator as a portable generator and not a back up

Or

Disconnect and reconnect as needed for the application.
Click to expand...

Who says it the neutral and ground must be bonded for portable use?

That could actually increase the likelihood of a shock.
 

Seems OSHA wants it.


Under the following conditions, OSHA
directs (29 CFR 1926.404(f)(3)(i)) that the
frame of a portable generator need not be
grounded (connected to earth) and that the
frame may serve as the ground (in place of
the earth):
? The generator supplies only equipment
mounted on the generator and/or cordand
plug-connected equipment through
receptacles mounted on the generator,
? 1926.404(f)(3)(i)(A), and
? The noncurrent-carrying metal parts of
equipment (such as the fuel tank, the internal
combustion engine, and the generator?s
housing) are bonded to the generator
frame, and the equipment grounding conductor
terminals (of the power receptacles
that are a part of [mounted on] the generator)
are bonded to the generator frame,
? 1926.404(f)(3)(i)(B).
Click to expand...
​
​
​

​


Thus, effective bonding of the neutral
conductor to the generator?s frame is also a
concern for the safe use of the equipment. As
with grounding terminal connections, proper
bonding of the neutral terminal of a power
receptacle may be confirmed via testing by a
competent electrician with the correct equipment
Click to expand...
,​
 
What section can I find this?

Thus, effective bonding of the neutral
conductor to the generator?s frame is also a
concern for the safe use of the equipment. As
with grounding terminal connections, proper
bonding of the neutral terminal of a power
receptacle may be confirmed via testing by a
competent electrician with the correct equipment
Click to expand...
 
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