Hot Attic Work

[Little Bill]

I guess all areas of the country have hot attics during certain parts of the year, but where I'm at it's at least 6 months out of the year that attics are extremely hot during the day. I was wondering how you guys handle working in them especially in the summer months. Do you only do "have to" jobs, ie; troubleshooting, repair etc.? Or do you take on what the HO wants. Do you charge more if it's just something they want, and won't wait until it cools off? There is a similar thread going here but I didn't want to stray off in the middle of the other thread. Just looking for some ways to handle this should it arise for me.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I will not allow my men or myself to work in a hot attic. During the summer we are out of the attic by 10 or 11 am depending how shaded the house may be. I plan so the attic work is done early and we start at 7am or earlier if they will let us.

This means it may be a 2 day job instead of a one day job but the productivity is nada when you work in the heat like that.

 

[GUNNING]

Your kidding .. right?

Your kidding .. right?

I don't mind attic work at all. Lets me know exactly where my wire is placed. Makes it a lot easier to get the wire down the wall or in the panel.
Ok, so I'm a bit of a control freak.
Its so much easier to run a wire in the attic. Hot? A pair of leather gloves, jeans and sneakers.. Cool air can be found up by the roof vent. Its like a 2x4 jungle gym on a macadum parking lot.
Respirator, I like the rubber ones, it's like a Darth Vader sound effects machine. Some people pay big bucks to use a sauna. Instead I get paid big bucks. Gets all the poisons out of the body. Not as bad as digging ditches in the sun. Thats hard on the joints and last much longer.
I don't mind attic work at all, but I live in Florida, not Arizona or Texas, now that would be dangerous.

 

[PetrosA]

I agree with Dennis - it's all about timing and temperature. I have done and will do emergency repairs in a really hot attic (~160 degrees F) but I won't stay there longer than 10 minutes and I won't do it alone - there has to be someone below for safety. In milder temps (below 130) I know guys who disassemble an AC duct and use that to keep cool while working for extended periods (making up JBs etc.).

 

[hurk27]

When I worked in Florida we had cool suits, nothing but a blower that pumped cooler air up a very light hose that was attached to the back of a white paper like suit, it did make it cumbersome to work in, but we could regulate how much pressure built up in the suit by opening the tie string around our sleeves and neck to allow more to air flow out, Not seen one since I moved to Indiana except for work in the steel mills.

They did keep the insulation off you also.

 

[SBuck]

So when you are working in these hot attics are you de-rating for the temperature?

 

[hurk27]

So when you are working in these hot attics are you de-rating for the temperature?

HECK NO, I charge more

 

[SBuck]

HECK NO, I charge more

De-rating the wire, not the hourly rate. 310.16 Temp correction factors

 

[Chamuit]

So when you are working in these hot attics are you de-rating for the temperature?

Derate myself? Nah.

I sometimes don't charge more, usually, maybe. Sometimes you can see it coming and do.

I had a job about three years ago that I didn't want to do. Attic work, crawl space work, and sewer smell. Would have been about a 2800-3000 dollar job. I priced it out at 5500. And, still got it. What a hot smelly (money making) pain.

 

[mivey]

Work early. Use fans when needed. Avoid the hottest part of the day. Whether or not I stay in the attic just depends. Some attics don't get too unbearable with fans but others are just not do-able with normal equipment.

If the customer insists, and wants to pay, you can bring in portable cooling equipment. Most are willing for you to work around the heat. Once, a customer installed an A/C unit for the attic because he figured he might want to go up there sometimes since he had some plywood down in some of the areas. Go figure.

 

[Sparky555]

I have a fan that swivels upward, so I set it up early at the access hole. If there's a power roof vent I make sure it runs constantly. I start early and quit early. I drink a lot of ice water. When I get too hot (getting chills is a bad sign) I go to the van and crank up the air conditioner until my body temperature comes down. I also try to warn people that if they want ceiling fans this summer, I might not do it if it's over 80 degrees outside. I add 30 degrees to outdoor temperatures for a rough attic temperature. Over 110 degrees is getting dangerous.

For those that don't understand, first you pass out, then you die because your body can't get its own temperature down. The most important thing is to drink a LOT of water.

 

[renosteinke]

Here's a tip for those in dryer climates: Wet the roof before you enter the attic.

Like a swamp cooler, the evaporating water will remove a LOT of the heat from the roof deck - and thus the attic.

 

[GUNNING]

BEE deeee rrrrating

BEE deeee rrrrating

As for derating, thats what the "B" is all about in NM-B. It is a higher temperature rated NM. Somebody realized temperatures got hot in attics where a lot of house wire is run.

334.112 Insulation. The insulated power conductors shall be one of the types listed in Table 310.13 that is suitable for branch circuit wiring or one that is identified for use in these cables. Conductor insulation shall be rated at 90?C
(194?F).
FPN: Types NM, NMC, and NMS cable identified by the markings NM-B, NMC-B, and NMS-B meet this requirement.
__________________

 

[G._S._Ohm]

Wet the roof before you enter the attic.

Today I have learned something.
How long does this buy you?

 

[dhalleron]

When I was younger, I worked in attics any time of day, any time of year. I would just wear jeans and a tee shirt. I remember going in one attic when it was 100 degrees outside. I only spent a few minutes in that one. We have high humidity here sometimes so it feels worse.

A lot of the old attics I worked in had the access door outside over a porch, so I could stick my head out and get a breath of air now and then.

I never had a boss that would plan for any fans, or air suits?

Now as my own part time boss I do short jobs in the heat. If it is going to be a long job, I plan for early in the morning.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

As for derating, thats what the "B" is all about in NM-B. It is a higher temperature rated NM. Somebody realized temperatures got hot in attics where a lot of house wire is run.

That's true but the table tells us to derate above 86 F. The problem is that it is not clear what ambient temp. really refers to. Is it the average, the mode, the high, etc.

 

[John120/240]

Planning, planning, planning. Cut your holes (can lights,fixtures, etc) ahead of time.

Two men, drink plenty of water. Do the task farthest from the scuttle hole first &

work backwards. Get all your ducks in a row before you go to the attic.

 

[Little Bill]

Thanks Guys! A lot of helpful advise. I did some work a few years ago in June. I started early and thought it would be a simple job, but took a lot longer than I expected or I would have planned different. I think I had a small heat stroke. Now that I plan on doing mostly residential work, I keep having nightmares from that one and needed some input on how to handle this in the future.

 

[Buck Parrish]

We put a squirell cage fan with a twelve ft. long 8" flexible duct that we put down the access hole. I carry it on the truck in the summer.

 

[renosteinke]

At least in Reno - strong sun and little humidity - wetting the roof leads to an immediate drop, and it takes a good half hour or so before the attic starts approaching devilish temperatures again.

How wet to get the roof? Just wet it until it starts to look wet. It's the evaporation, not the wetness, that cools the roof.