Hot ground reverse .

Status
Not open for further replies.
kwired said:
Something in circuit miswired and in series where it should have been paralleled? Maybe the bath lights/fan?
Click to expand...

I agree that something is mis-wired.

Most of these mistakes happen in switch junction boxes.

When I find that someone has crossed wires I go to the switch boxes and take all the connection apart and make sure that I understand what each conductor is to be used for before I remake the connections.

It doesn't sound like he has that many connections to check.
 
jumper said:
Yeah, I am thinking a mixed up connection in a box or light also.
Click to expand...

The OP's profile says that he has 3 years of residential and 2 years of commercial wiring experience.

I find that many guys that are used to doing commercial wiring forget the best ways to run NM cable for residential wiring.
 
gar said:
180804-2226 EDT

The original post is unclear by using the word ground. What is ground in this case? EGC or neutral or outdoor earth?

Do what Larry Fine suggested, except I would use a high impedance meter, and if a load is needed use a 1500 W heater.

.
Click to expand...
Put yourself in OP's shoes, apparent limited experience, plug in receptacle tester indicating hot and neutral reversed - he is most likely only concerned about three things - the receptacle's "hot", "neutral" and "EGC" terminals.
 
Did you wire the house? If so you should know how the wires run. Turn off all the power get your continuity tester out, ring out your wires until you find the problem; then never do that again!
Receps. Bare to bare green screw, White to white silver screw (unless hot feed to switch), tab broken off on switched recepts, Black to black dark screw.
Sending your "helper" just proved to you he can not be trusted; you need to chew your helper out and make him earn your trust back. That would be you walking into the job alone after you instructed Him on that days needs and he better be hauling the tools, materials, generator, radio, hook up power, etc. then clean up and break down at the end of the day. You will then have time to review the days work, make materials list, time sheets, etc..
 
kwired said:
Put yourself in OP's shoes, apparent limited experience, plug in receptacle tester indicating hot and neutral reversed - he is most likely only concerned about three things - the receptacle's "hot", "neutral" and "EGC" terminals.
Click to expand...

OP said hot and ground reversed, which the plug in testers have an indication for.

prod_6068545123
 
I've run into this numerous times and found, in most cases, that the wiring was correct. It turned out that something was plugged in or a light switch turned that cause this condition to show up on the tester. Shut off the breaker and use your VOM on ohms and see if there is any type of load on that circuit before ripping the the circuit apart. Just my opinion.
 
goldstar said:
I've run into this numerous times and found, in most cases, that the wiring was correct. It turned out that something was plugged in or a light switch turned that cause this condition to show up on the tester. Shut off the breaker and use your VOM on ohms and see if there is any type of load on that circuit before ripping the the circuit apart. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...
Something plugged in shouldn't cause a "fail" type of reading on this kind of tester if all connections back to the source are in good condition. Abnormal resistance in neutral or grounding conductor can though.
 
If I recall right, one of the shortcuts used by testers in a room that has lights and outlets on same circuit and first outlet is a gfci or afci outlet, is to turn light on then plug tester in... if light stays on yet afci pops circuit off, they fail it... yet it should be fine that way.
i only would consider it a fail if light popped off when gfci popped off... because that meant the light was wired after the gfci...
 
Adamjamma said:
If I recall right, one of the shortcuts used by testers in a room that has lights and outlets on same circuit and first outlet is a gfci or afci outlet, is to turn light on then plug tester in... if light stays on yet afci pops circuit off, they fail it... yet it should be fine that way.
i only would consider it a fail if light popped off when gfci popped off... because that meant the light was wired after the gfci...
Click to expand...
What are you talking about?
 
jumper said:
I believe it is some “home brew” method for checking to see if loads downstream of a GFCI are wired in series or parallel to the GFGI. Line or load side. I think....
Click to expand...
Basically, that is exactly the case. If the wiring to the lights is taken from the gfci outlet, but in a pigtail fashion before the outlet is wired up, then the rest of the outlets are wired to the load side of the outlet, the outlet, when tested, cuts off the outlets but the lights stay on.
if, however, the lights are taken from the circuit after the load, then the lights cut off when the outlets are tripped by the test...
i prefer to have lights to see with..personally, so I wire the lights from the line side of the outlet.
 
Adamjamma said:
Basically, that is exactly the case. If the wiring to the lights is taken from the gfci outlet, but in a pigtail fashion before the outlet is wired up, then the rest of the outlets are wired to the load side of the outlet, the outlet, when tested, cuts off the outlets but the lights stay on.
if, however, the lights are taken from the circuit after the load, then the lights cut off when the outlets are tripped by the test...
i prefer to have lights to see with..personally, so I wire the lights from the line side of the outlet.
Click to expand...
What's the connection with reversed phase and grounded conductors at receptacles here?
 
Adamjamma said:
Basically, that is exactly the case. If the wiring to the lights is taken from the gfci outlet, but in a pigtail fashion before the outlet is wired up, then the rest of the outlets are wired to the load side of the outlet, the outlet, when tested, cuts off the outlets but the lights stay on.
if, however, the lights are taken from the circuit after the load, then the lights cut off when the outlets are tripped by the test...
i prefer to have lights to see with..personally, so I wire the lights from the line side of the outlet.
Click to expand...
Ok. Why are you talking about this? How does it relate to the topic if the thread?
 
ActionDave said:
Ok. Why are you talking about this? How does it relate to the topic if the thread?
Click to expand...

there was a person that said if the light was switched on it would affect the tester. It never did when we wired it this way... so, if it is affecting the circuit it is probably crossed in the lighting circuit... but only if wired in the fashion I give.

There are many things you test and yes, those new testers with the lights help, but, they do not tell you where the connection is bad, only that it is... the wandering lead method of checking for circuit continuity that I am being taught here in the UK is more work, but it also tracks down the problems quicker in some cases... especially if you do as I do and start from the panel box out...

That said, I bow down to you experts here.. I have seen places that want the lights wired on the same breaker as the outlets, and want the lights to turn off when the gfci or afci is tripped... other places allow the lights to be separate circuits. I prefer to have separate circuit but always go by what the local inspectors have told me to do...

But, I am just learning to properly be certified so will try to shut up while you big boys argue
 
IMHO the 'hot ground reverse' is a red herring. As others have said this is most likely a neutral connection open somewhere.

The receptacle testers _do not_ detect 'hot-ground reverse'. Instead they have 3 neon bulbs connected to the 3 terminals of the tester, and a little table that _suggests_ the meanings for various combinations of lights.

Voltages are being measured (or the lights on the tester are lighting) either because of connection _via_ loads, or because of leakage current. The voltage between neutral and ground, the change in light status depending on switch position, etc. are all clues as to where the neutral is open.

As others have suggested, testing using a solenoid tester (a low impedance meter) and testing using an extension cord to a known good receptacle are well established and very good techniques for chasing down this sort of issue.

-Jon
 
Adamjamma said:
That said, I bow down to you experts here..

But, I am just learning to properly be certified so will try to shut up while you big boys argue
Click to expand...

No has to bow down to anyone here, we are not that way.

We are all here to learn and participate.

Just remember that since many of our terms and expressions seem a bit strange to you, some of yours are confusing to us.

Common problem when communication is across a broad spectrum of different experiences, education, and methods.

Derek
 
winnie said:
IMHO the 'hot ground reverse' is a red herring. As others have said this is most likely a neutral connection open somewhere.

The receptacle testers _do not_ detect 'hot-ground reverse'. Instead they have 3 neon bulbs connected to the 3 terminals of the tester, and a little table that _suggests_ the meanings for various combinations of lights.

Voltages are being measured (or the lights on the tester are lighting) either because of connection _via_ loads, or because of leakage current. The voltage between neutral and ground, the change in light status depending on switch position, etc. are all clues as to where the neutral is open.

As others have suggested, testing using a solenoid tester (a low impedance meter) and testing using an extension cord to a known good receptacle are well established and very good techniques for chasing down this sort of issue.

-Jon
Click to expand...
That’s all well and fine but if a HI comes in, plugs in his tester and it shows reverse polarity - that’s as far as he’s going. In his mind it’s reverse polarity. There will be no extension cords pulled out of the trunk to try one of those methods IMHO.
 
goldstar said:
That’s all well and fine but if a HI comes in, plugs in his tester and it shows reverse polarity - that’s as far as he’s going. In his mind it’s reverse polarity. There will be no extension cords pulled out of the trunk to try one of those methods IMHO.
Click to expand...
And he did his job, inspecting, and found and noted that there is a problem. His job isn't to repair the deficiencies he finds.

The hot/neutral reversed is just the combination of lights that is on during the testing. May be actual reversed leads or may be other conditions that will cause such lights to be illuminated, whoever does troubleshoot it will have to figure that out, first step likely is to verify that it actually is as simple as hot/neutral being reversed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top