Hot Inspectors

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Re: Hot Inspectors

how would you enforce 110.7, "completed wiring installations shall be free from short circuits and from grounds", its not to uncommon on a final inspection to see a breaker tripped or taped off because it will not reset, this is not a final inspection, this is a visual only inspection and protects nobody, who checks the house after the power is turned on?
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

Originally posted by augie47:
. . .How often does it fail to trip the AFCI when the AFCI tests good using the breaker's test button?
Mike, I don't know how far I'm behind on models, but I use an Ideal 61-056. Its seems to be about 80% accurate compared to the breakers. (About 80% of the time, it will trip the AFCI, of the 20% it doesn't, the test button on the breaker does on about half...the balance won't trip by Ideal tester or self-test)
So, basically you're saying 10% of the AFCIs you see won't test one way or the other. Wow, that's depressing. Do you fail those breakers? What about the ones that the tester trips? Do you ever self-test them with their test button? If so, do you see ones that won't pass the self-test but were tripped by the tester?

Mike
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

Here the electrical contractor has the responsibility and warranty to check proper operation of gfci, afci and the systems in a building.The inspectors do only a visual spacing etc. they don`t care if it works at all.
Sad but true.these are the same inspectors that will fail on final what they passed on rough in.I have a problem with this situation.How can an inspector pass a rough in and fail it on a final when nothing has changed except drywall and trim???
We have been failed for not digging up the uffer on a final when the rough in is for rough/uffer sign off.The reason given was that the grader might have damaged the rebar.Now we tag # 4 inside the footer so that went away.But if the painters swap a plate and there isn`t a gfci sticker we fail for not gfci protected even though there isn`t a way to test it.Welcome to our world :roll:
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

Originally posted by mpd:
how would you enforce 110.7, "completed wiring installations shall be free from short circuits and from grounds", its not to uncommon on a final inspection to see a breaker tripped or taped off because it will not reset, this is not a final inspection, this is a visual only inspection and protects nobody, who checks the house after the power is turned on?
Large commercial jobs megger everything before energizing. DO people take the time to do it residential?? Or do they just turn it on and hope for the best??
You can verify 110.7 with an VOM or even a continuity tester. Time comsuming, yes.

The only finals I can think of in recent memory without power have been tenant panels in empty lease spaces in a mall. Then it's only a feeder to an empty panel. The switchboard was energized with only the house meter set.
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

IMO this whole thing is out of hand No power no final inspection, It is a no brainer.

Lets take a vote. Those who agree to a final inspection without power vote yes those who do not vote no.

I think the no's will win .

romeo
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

Basically the hope for the best is the rule here.There are rare exceptions when we can get a power on inspection.But everything has to be trimmed and/or blanked off.The only time I have gotten one was for hardwood flooring where the humidity had to be controlled and then it is a 30 day power on.I personally would love the idea of power to final but that isn`t how it is.The subject has come up but to date that isn`t the case.
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

Originally posted by allenwayne:
To top it off he blew up a dryer.I got a call from office that the inspector had been shocked and to go there to see what was up.There was an 8/4 so cord from the t pole and plugged into the dryer.OK a male cord cap shouldn`t be energized .as I was walking in he pulled up and walked in screaming and pulled the cord cap and dropped the hot cord cap on the top of the dryer and boom good thing the cord was connected to a 2 pole 50 and not the main lugs in the tpole.
I'm sorry, Allen, but I can't find any way to defend this. Sure, the inspector "should" have known better, but, like many laws, sometimes we have to protect some people from themselves.

I imagine a hot plug is just as illegal, and certainly as dangerous, during construction as it is afterward. For this part of the story, I would have to side with the shockee, not the shocker.

Here, in Va., we have a service inspection that allows the POCO to connect, which requires one circuit, like the laundry, with a temporarily-installed GFCI receptacle. The rough is separate, as is the final.

Just for the record, in the 7500+ sq.ft. house we just finished, with two 40-space main panels and two 12-space sub panels, we had exactly zero shorts or other faults, and every fixture and receptacle works.

Okay, to be fair, we did have to uncover approximately five drywall-buried boxes and repair a few Roto-zipped wires, one 10-3 that the homeowner damaged, a defective fluorescent ballast, and a bad-out-of-the-box 3-way switch, but that's it.

Understand, we're talking about 172 recessed lights, a half-dozen pendants and chandeliers, six bath fans, under-cabinet fluorescents, the usual kitchen appliances, a remote-fan range hood, a half-dozen sconces, and four flood assemblies.

Oh yeah, let's not forget ten 8' fluorescents in the 4-car garage, eight closet, laundry, and pantry 4' fluorescents, three heat-pumps, and a gaggle of phone, coax-cable, CAT-5e network, and distributed-audio cable runs.

Bragging? Well, yeah. :cool:
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

Mike/AFCI:
Mike, That number probabaly includes the time frame that Square D was having trouble with theirs and had a recall, but I'd say now probably 5% won't trip, self-test or tester. I've had none that tripped with the tester but did not trip with the self-test.
Their were some interesting posts about "arc fault testers" not actually being testers in this forum but I've not found them in my search. Since reading those, even though I use my "tester", I will not reject a breaker that self-test properly.
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

I vote no power then no final.

I can not begin to understand why a power company will not energize a house after service is completed. What does final inspection have to do with anything. Do your areas not do "service" inspections?
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

Have there been any discussions on GFCI testers in this forum?

At a meeting last year, a gentleman named Joe Ross who sits on a cmp gave a brief presentation on how GFCI testers can damage the device with just several uses. He spent about a year giving seminars on behalf of a manufacturer(s) who say that GFCI's should ONLY be tested using the test buttons. He also said that after this "tour" he could convince only a small percentage of inspectors to stop using their testers.
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

The county or city issues a meter release after the final inspection in residential permits.Commercial have a service, ceiling ,wall,then a final,But residential gets the final when everything is completed and a meter after a final.This is how they have done it for years and will continue in this manner unless something changes which isn`t likely.
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

Originally posted by allenwayne:
The county or city issues a meter release after the final inspection in residential permits.Commercial have a service, ceiling ,wall,then a final,But residential gets the final when everything is completed and a meter after a final.This is how they have done it for years and will continue in this manner unless something changes which isn`t likely.
So residential gets just 2 inspections - rough and final?
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

Originally posted by j_erickson:
At a meeting last year, a gentleman named Joe Ross who sits on a cmp gave a brief presentation on how GFCI testers can damage the device with just several uses. He spent about a year giving seminars on behalf of a manufacturer(s) who say that GFCI's should ONLY be tested using the test buttons.
It seems that the only difference between an inetrnal test and a plug-in is that the internal uses a resistance to the neutral, while a plug-in uses a resistor to the ground.

If they're really that fragile and easy to disable, I would imagine that the manufacturer would have to include a "no longer effective" warning light or something similar.
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

Originally posted by j_erickson:
Originally posted by allenwayne:
The county or city issues a meter release after the final inspection in residential permits.Commercial have a service, ceiling ,wall,then a final,But residential gets the final when everything is completed and a meter after a final.This is how they have done it for years and will continue in this manner unless something changes which isn`t likely.
So residential gets just 2 inspections - rough and final?
3 if there is pvc in the slab .
 
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