hot tub bonding

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finster1

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In New Jersey we are on 2014 code change and as I am reading the code I was under the assumption that I was going to need a bonding grid around
the hot tub. It seems that there was a tentative interim amendment to 2014 from 2011 that if the spa is placed 28" away from everything around it and nothing is extending 30" or more horizontally
from the hot/spa that I do not have to have a bonding grid at all. The spot where it will be placed is pavers and i was hoping to disturb as little as possible, so this would work to my, and
my customers advantage, not to have to worry about pavers. Can you guys confirm I am reading this correctly? The is a metal chain-link fence along the property line buy it seems if I keep it 28" away from that and 5' from the
house that i would be golden.
 
The TIA is now code in the 2014. If the fence is within 5' of the tub it must be bonded-- any metal within 5' must be bonded


(B) Bonding. Bonding by metal-to-metal mounting on a
common frame or base shall be permitted. The metal bands
or hoops used to secure wooden staves shall not be required
to be bonded as required in 680.26.
Equipotential bonding of perimeter surfaces in accordance
with 680.26(B)(2) shall not be required to be provided
for spas and hot tubs where all of the following
conditions apply:
(1) The spa or hot tub shall be listed as a self-contained spa
for aboveground use.
(2) The spa or hot tub shall not be identified as suitable
only for indoor use.
(3) The installation shall be in accordance with the manufacturer’s
instructions and shall be located on or above
grade.
(4) The top rim of the spa or hot tub shall be at least
710 mm (28 in.) above all perimeter surfaces that are
within 760 mm (30 in.), measured horizontally from
the spa or hot tub. The height of nonconductive external
steps for entry to or exit from the self-contained spa
shall not be used to reduce or increase this rim height
measurement.
Click to expand...



(D) Bonding. The following parts shall be bonded together:
(1) All metal fittings within or attached to the spa or hot
tub structure
(2) Metal parts of electrical equipment associated with the
spa or hot tub water circulating system, including pump
motors, unless part of a listed self-contained spa or hot
tub
(3) Metal raceway and metal piping that are within 1.5 m
(5 ft) of the inside walls of the spa or hot tub and that
are not separated from the spa or hot tub by a permanent
barrier
(4) All metal surfaces that are within 1.5 m (5 ft) of the
inside walls of the spa or hot tub and that are not
separated from the spa or hot tub area by a permanent
barrier
Exception: Small conductive surfaces not likely to become
energized, such as air and water jets and drain fittings,
where not connected to metallic piping, towel bars, mirror
frames, and similar nonelectrical equipment, shall not be
required to be bonded.
(5) Electrical devices and controls that are not associated
with the spas or hot tubs and that are located less than
1.5 m (5 ft) from such units; otherwise, they shall be
bonded to the spa or hot tub system
Click to expand...
 
4) The top rim of the spa or hot tub shall be at least
710 mm (28 in.) above all perimeter surfaces that are
within 760 mm (30 in.), measured horizontally from
the spa or hot tub. The height of nonconductive external
steps for entry to or exit from the self-contained spa
shall not be used to reduce or increase this rim height
measurement.

Does this mean that if the tub is less than 28" above a wooden deck it has to have a bonding grid?
 
Michael15956 said:
4) The top rim of the spa or hot tub shall be at least
710 mm (28 in.) above all perimeter surfaces that are
within 760 mm (30 in.), measured horizontally from
the spa or hot tub. The height of nonconductive external
steps for entry to or exit from the self-contained spa
shall not be used to reduce or increase this rim height
measurement.

Does this mean that if the tub is less than 28" above a wooden deck it has to have a bonding grid?
Click to expand...


Yes, and the equipotential bonding will be needed.
 
Michael15956 said:
Dennis, what's the reasoning for this, I'm not seeing why?
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The reason for what??? I think the reason for the 28" is that a person could stand in the tub and still touch the earth so that there could be a shock potential from stray voltage. If it is higher then I assume there is less potential because you would need a stair to get into the tub and if it is metal it would be bonded and the probably of shock would be greatly decreased. That's my guess anyone
 
I would definitely install the bond grid. Most inspectors would want it and hell it's an insurance policy for you.

Also, as mentioned the fence must be bonded if within 5'. Just remember the posts must be bonded if they fall within 5'. The fence without the posts can be removed, breaking the bond.
So posts within 5' must be bonded.
 
what type of "hot tub" ??

Mystic Pools said:
Also, as mentioned the fence must be bonded if within 5'. Just remember the posts must be bonded if they fall within 5'. The fence without the posts can be removed, breaking the bond.
So posts within 5' must be bonded.
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nec states to bond poles and not the fencing?
 
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Dennis Alwon said:
I suspect if you bond the metal posts then the fencing would also be bonded.
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Yes the fence would be bonded.

If more than 1 post is within the 5' distance, it must be bonded. If just 1 post is bonded and the fence is removed, corroded or damaged, that fence is longer bonded. Bonding the multiple posts within 5', assure a continuous bond and meets the code.

Just picture a metal fence running parallel with a pool within 5'. Each post must be bonded as it falls within that minimum distance. Yes the fence too will bonded provided it's attached to the post.

A wood fence does not need bonding, but if it has metal supports within the minimum distance, they must be bonded.
 
FionaZuppa said:
code section quote please.
Click to expand...

If you want a code section for every detail in wiring you will not find it in the nec. The code states to bond the fence so it up to the authority having jurisdiction to accept or not accept the bonding of the fence post. Those metal fences typically have a very solid connection between the post and the fence thru clamps etc. Trying to bond the actual fence may not be necessary IMO. Again an authority having jurisdiction call

iStock_000003367454Small.jpg
 
Dennis Alwon said:
If you want a code section for every detail in wiring you will not find it in the nec. The code states to bond the fence so it up to the authority having jurisdiction to accept or not accept the bonding of the fence post. Those metal fences typically have a very solid connection between the post and the fence thru clamps etc. Trying to bond the actual fence may not be necessary IMO. Again an authority having jurisdiction call
Click to expand...

maybe the 2014 nec 250.194 should apply?? but does not specifically say every post. i dont see anything specific in 680.

2011 nec 680.26(B)(2) - you dont need to bond past the wall/fence if it is less than 5ft away AND at least 5ft high (tidbit info)

bond every post that is within that 5ft mark? maybe, they may have a concrete bottom (a ufer they are not). i would also use a ground rod with a metal fence that was within 5ft, or bond it over to an existing ground rod if there is one. my AHJ would allow a clamp on the fencing itself w/o very pole being attached to.
 
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perhaps vinyl coated chain link would warrant every post within 5ft to be wired.......
 
FionaZuppa said:
perhaps vinyl coated chain link would warrant every post within 5ft to be wired.......
Click to expand...


IMO, I think every post should be bonded if it were within 5'. I don't think the fence itself needs extra bonding but again it may and it will be an authority having jurisdiction call
 
FionaZuppa said:
maybe the 2014 nec 250.194 should apply?? but does not specifically say every post. i dont see anything specific in 680.

2011 nec 680.26(B)(2) - you dont need to bond past the wall/fence if it is less than 5ft away AND at least 5ft high (tidbit info)

bond every post that is within that 5ft mark? maybe, they may have a concrete bottom (a ufer they are not). i would also use a ground rod with a metal fence that was within 5ft, or bond it over to an existing ground rod if there is one. my AHJ would allow a clamp on the fencing itself w/o very pole being attached to.
Click to expand...


I agree we get no help but...

:? 680.26(B)(2) has nothing to do with fences but rather perimeter bonding. 680.26(B)(7) is what applies -- this is 2011.

(7) Fixed Metal Parts. All fixed metal parts shall be bonded
including, but not limited to, metal-sheathed cables and raceways,
metal piping, metal awnings, metal fences, and metal
door and window frames.
Exception No. 1: Those separated from the pool by a
permanent barrier that prevents contact by a person shall
not be required to be bonded.
Exception No. 2: Those greater than 1.5 m (5 ft) horizontally
of the inside walls of the pool shall not be required to
be bonded.
Exception No. 3: Those greater than 3.7 m (12 ft) measured
vertically above the maximum water level of the pool,
or as measured vertically above any observation stands,
towers, or platforms, or any diving structures, shall not be
required to be bonded.
Click to expand...
 
what type of "hot tub" is it ??

no need to bond in some cases. hot tub / spa meets 680 parts 1 & 4 and has exceptions, the argument of portable may also apply.

680.42 Outdoor Installations
(B) Equipotential Bonding. Equipotential bonding of perimeter surfaces
[680.26(B)(2)] isn’t required for outdoor spas and hot tubs if they
meet all of the following conditions: Figure 680–53
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and yeah, i know it says "surfaces" but this section(s) (1 or 4) does not address metal parts within 5ft horizontal for outdoor item. only indoor item..
 
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post #2 (dennis), 680.43(D) is for Indoor Installations
 
well, there are many exceptions to the "requirements"
680.43 Indoor
Ex 2: The equipotential bonding for perimeter surfaces contained
in 680.26(B)(2) don’t apply to a listed self-contained spa or hot tub
installed above an indoor finished floor.
Click to expand...

680.26 is found under Part-II of 680

part IV does say "outdoor spas must comply with part II"

but, the Intro verbiage is confusing, because in essence, 680.43 applies bonding for indoor items too.

part II is for "Permanent" items. a manufactured UL listed spa (hot tub) is typically not a permanent item, it can easily be lifted and moved, where-as a formed in place spa (hot tub) is very permanent.


and then 680.26 mr. MH comments in his PDF says
Author’s Comment:
The bonding requirements of this section don’t apply to spas
and hot tubs [680.42]
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.... which i believe is a inaccurate blanket statement because 680.42(B) is a bonding section w/ exceptions. or, his comment was prior to 680.42(B)(1-4).


in my view, from nec, if its a spa you buy from the store, UL listed for outdoor, is placed outdoor, i dont see part II bonding being applied. however, bonding is relevant under 680.42 & 680.43 with noted exceptions in those sections.

i think i said this before, 680 has many issues and needs to be fixed.

as example, fig 680.53 is not correct, a 680.42(B) clearly states "ALL" must be met, as in 680.42(B)(1-4).
 
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