Hot tub diconnect location

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eatalot

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nm sealtight run on top of slab to hot tub is that code

nm sealtight run on top of slab to hot tub is that code

can you run nm sealtight to hot tub across top of slab 4feet
 

Sierrasparky

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So would anyone agree with me that if your state is still on the 2005 code it would b permissable to place a disconnect within the 5' area of the spa tub.
 

Dennis Alwon

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So would anyone agree with me that if your state is still on the 2005 code it would b permissable to place a disconnect within the 5' area of the spa tub.
I am not sure I agree based on 680.22(C)

680.22(C)Switching Devices. Switching devices shall be located at least 1.5 m (5 ft) horizontally from the inside walls of a pool unless separated from the pool by a solid fence, wall, or other permanent barrier. Alternatively, a switch that is listed as being acceptable for use within 1.5 m (5 ft) shall be permitted.
 

Sierrasparky

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I don't know that a switching device would be considered a Disconnect.
Part C is under the sub heading
(B) Luminaries, lighting outlets , and Ceiling suspended fans

(5) cord and plug connected luminaries
(C) Switching devices ( I would think this pertains to lighting controls and related equipment and not a disconnect. Otherwise the code team would not have made the many changes.

Am I not reading the code book correctly?


Besides they let a receptacle located inside the 5 ' foot rule as an exception. So you can eletrocute yourself if your house is too close.
 
Sierrasparky;1240782 Besides they let a receptacle located inside the 5 ' foot rule as an exception. So you can eletrocute yourself if your house is too close.[/QUOTE said:
yea I saw that also. I don't know why they did not allow any outlet if they cannot meet the 5 foot rule. I suppose they are worrried that someone will use an extension cord from a non GFCI outlet
Oh well
 

Dennis Alwon

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I don't know that a switching device would be considered a Disconnect.
Well, IMO a disconnect is a switching device because it switches the power off and on. They are also called disconnect switches.

The NEC does not want electricity close to the tub where someone can touch it and still be touching water. Ibelieve that is why they want electrical 5' or more.

The 2008 code rewrite has made it clear.
 

Sierrasparky

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Well, IMO a disconnect is a switching device because it switches the power off and on. They are also called disconnect switches.

The NEC does not want electricity close to the tub where someone can touch it and still be touching water. Ibelieve that is why they want electrical 5' or more.

The 2008 code rewrite has made it clear.
I thought that we are not allowed to pull subsections from other portions of the code just to create a violation.
A switching device is not a Disconnect. Such as a pull-out.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks
 
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Dennis Alwon

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can you run nm sealtight to hot tub across top of slab 4feet
If you are talking about carflex (liquidtite flexible non metallic conduit) then yes it can be used in lengths not over 6' but IMO the disco. must be 5' from the inside wall of the tub unless there is a permanent barrier.

Now, the carflex may not be accepted by some inspectors if you are laying it on the slab where it may be subject to damage.
 

Dennis Alwon

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I thought that we are not allowed to pull subsections from other portions of the code just to create a violation.
THe section that you cite is from a sub Section 680.22 "(B) (5) on cord and plug connected luminaires"

I believe your are incorrect. The section I quoted is from 680.22 (C) in the 2005 which falls under area lighting, receptacles & equipment. :)
 

Sierrasparky

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I believe your are incorrect. The section I quoted is from 680.22 (C) in the 2005 which falls under area lighting, receptacles & equipment. :)

Yes I saw that but I have a problem with calling a pull-out disconnect a Switching device. Pull-out are not used as a switch. A general safety switch used as a disco maybe.


If the language was correct for what is interpeted here by you then why did the code group feel necessary to clarify it differently for the third time in 3 code cycles.
 

Dennis Alwon

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Yes I saw that but I have a problem with calling a pull-out disconnect a Switching device. Pull-out are not used as a switch. A general safety switch used as a disco maybe.


If the language was correct for what is interpeted here by you then why did the code group feel necessary to clarify it differently for the third time in 3 code cycles.
Okay so you are not happy with a disco being called a switch but you are looking for ways to justify the installation within 5'. That's fine and your right to do so and perhaps the code changed the wording to clarify because others may have made your argument. It is clear the intent is to no have the disco within 5'.
 

Dennis Alwon

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Yes I saw that but I have a problem with calling a pull-out disconnect a Switching device. Pull-out are not used as a switch. A general safety switch used as a disco maybe.
.

So you think the code will okay a pull out but not a safety switch? I think you are getting caught up in trying to justify the install. :)
 

Sierrasparky

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Oh I just found the definition of " swiching Device"
look at the beginning of the code book Under Article 100 section II
section II reads " Over 600 volts Nominal"
goes on further to say:

"Whereas the preceding definitions are intended to apply wherever the terms are used throughout this CODE , the following definitions are applicable onlt to parts of the article specifically covering installations and equipment operating at over 600 volts, Nominal"

I think thats the smokin gun for my interpetation.
What do think?

Thanks for the conversation, you really made me dig.
 

Dennis Alwon

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sparky you really are fishing. First off this application is not over 600 volts but you want to use it...... Okay I will play, the first sentence states a device designed to close, open, or both, one or more electrical circuits..... So a disco does not fit this defintion????

Logically why would the NEC allow a disconnect and not, say, a snap switch. It is illogically and I still think you are fishing. :grin:
 

Sierrasparky

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sparky you really are fishing. First off this application is not over 600 volts but you want to use it...... Okay I will play, the first sentence states a device designed to close, open, or both, one or more electrical circuits..... So a disco does not fit this defintion????

Logically why would the NEC allow a disconnect and not, say, a snap switch. It is illogically and I still think you are fishing. :grin:

Geeze. I am not fishing.
You're right this is not a 600v installation!
The code specifically states that that definition does not apply unless 600v. Did you read what it states " the following definitions are applicable onlt to parts of the article specifically covering installations and equipment operating at over 600 volts, Nominal"

I am not making stuff up here. The code panel used the word " Switching device" The only definition of a "switching device as used in the 2005 code book is a term exclusively reserved for voltages over 600v

so the issue of snap switch , diconnect, pullout is moot as it is not a switching device as defined in the code article 100 section II. The code panel revised the section in 2008. So in 2005 it does not apply.

The code may be wrong not prior to 2008 and that's the way is goes. In any event I don't see an issue with such an installation. If the pull-out circuit is GFCI protected then what is the problem. What is to stop someone from pulling the panel cover off the tub while standing in water, all wet, then touching a live part inside. You can't just touch live parts of a disconnect ( fusable safety switch maybe)
 

Sierrasparky

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Dennis I am not trying to bust your chops and argue with you on this. Until the 2008 code I never heard about this issue. Then we have an inspector that was trying to make a fellow EC change a install because he read the 2008 code and we are/were still on the 2005.

Then we look in the 2005 code and we see language like " Switching device" I don't know anywhere in the code is this particular term is used while referring to a Breaker or Disconnect. Maybe one of you with NEC on CD can take a look.

I am open to discussion and interpetation all I would like is the backup.
 
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