hot tub equipotential

[iwire]

Perhaps the tub makers will get smart and offer an optional 3' deck of wood around the perimeter that would match the tub and comply with the NEC.

 

[Cavie]

I see the 3' wood deck as the only option. My AHJ will never go for the cutting of the deck or toping with concrete.

 

[iwire]

I see the 3' wood deck as the only option. My AHJ will never go for the cutting of the deck or toping with concrete.

Why?

Why would the AHJ have any control over what method was used as long as each was done in a way that meets all codes?

 

[Oakey]

I just looked at a hot tub that sits on top of pavers as a foundation. Does this rule also apply if thats the case?

 

[iwire]

Yes, at least to the 3' boarder around the tub if it also has pavers.

 

[jwelectric]

Check out what is coming to the 2008 cycle
680.26(B) (2) Perimeter Surfaces. Extends for 1 m (3 ft) horizontally beyond the inside walls of the pool.
Includes unpaved surfaces as well as poured concrete and other types of paving.
Bonding for perimeter surfaces shall be provided as specified in 680.26(B)(2)(a) or 680.26(B)(2)(b), and attached to the pool reinforcing steel or copper conductor grid at a minimum of four (4) points uniformly spaced around the perimeter of the pool. For nonconductive pool shells, bonding at four points shall not be required. [ROP
17-114a]

What areas are included in this bonding grid?

 

[Minuteman]

Check out what is coming to the 2008 cycle 680.26(B)(2) Perimeter Surfaces. For nonconductive pool shells, bonding at four points shall not be required.

That's what is weird about this to me. The Hot tubs that we mostly install are from the same manufacturer. Except for the motor and control panel, the whole thing is "non conductive". There are steps up and out of the water and back down to about 3' (I will double check that) from the edge of the tub.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

One of the issues discussed this past weekend was the Equipotential Bonding Grid for the 2008 NEC.

One of the changes is that even GRASS or EARTH surfaces will require the 'grid'. Also the 'grid' will not be required to be a grid. The requirement will be to install a copper conductor around the perimeter of the pool - good relief from a 'grid'.
There is complete restructuring to 680.26, which results in the section being more than 1 1/2 pages long...WOW!!!

I do not know if the Draft is available online, but I picked up two of them at the IAI meeting.

Lots of very interesting info came out of the meeting... wait to you hear about the listing of wirenuts and which wirenuts are listed for which applications...you will be surprised... I think it will change the way manufacturers test and list the wirenuts in the near future.

BTW: There are no listed ground screws, and UL (plus some CMP members) said that clamp screws could be used for bonding the EGC to the box.

 

[Cavie]

Iwire, I didn't mean to say my AHJ would not allow cuting the concrete or pouring new. I ment he would not require it be done. I do no know what he wouold require but the wood deck make perfect sence. When Florida adopts the 2005, I'll let you know what he decided.

 

[Minuteman]

Pierre, you have a missing link.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

That is not a link, it is a different color for adding stress to the point of the section number being so long.

 

[Minuteman]

Bad on me!

 

[jwelectric]

I do not know if the Draft is available online, but I picked up two of them at the IAI meeting.

Pierre, you have a missing link.

Well click here then http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/PDF/necdigest/NEC2008ROPDraft.pdf

 

[don_resqcapt19]

You can download the draft copy of the 2008 NEC here. You can also call NFPA customer service and ask them to send you a printed copy of the draft.
Don

 

[dana1028]

I also agree that outdoor hottubs need the grid. 680.42(B) is very, very clear on this.

Seems most all are pretty much agreed we need the 'grid.'

However, I just read the TIA for 680.26...
"Exception: The equipotential bonding grid shall not be required to be installed under the bottom....of vinyl lined polymer wall, fiber glass composite, or other pools constructed of nonconductive materials..."


Referring ONLY to the fiberglass shell in a wood frame type hot tub....aren't these the types the TIA is addressing? i.e. NOT required to have a bonding grid.

 

[Cavie]

Bonding grid not required UNDER the tub. Only 3' from the sides

 

[volt102]

I also agree that a grid is needed under paved walking surfaces for the 05 cycle. I have several hot tubs that were installed within my juristriction that have grids installed around the tubs.

The 08 Proposal needs a little work(IMO), I have instructed a student of mine to send in a commit on it (lets see what he comes up with), the proposal as it stands would require the grid under ALL perimeter surfaces... It does not exclude non-conductive perimeter surfaces such as wood decking and plastic pavers and etc...I may be missing something here, but what good would it do?

Pierre, I will refer to that meeting the 'GREEN WIRENUT' meeting! I did enjoy that meeting very much. The code breakfasts, the ROP 2008, the UL meetings, were all very informative.

Jim
New Hampshire

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Jim
It was good to meet you. New Hampshire is in good hands .

Like you, I enjoyed the meetings, and I also enjoy meeting new people and the guys who come year in and year out.

Jim
You should tell them what went on in the UL meeting in regards to the wirenut issue.

 

[volt102]

Jim
You should tell them what went on in the UL meeting in regards to the wirenut issue.

Not too sure we should open up that can of worms. How about just posting a warning..."Do Not Use Red Wirenuts For Grounding and Bonding Purposes."

Jim
New Hampshire

 

[Minuteman]

Not too sure we should open up that can of worms. How about just posting a warning..."Do Not Use Red Wirenuts For Grounding and Bonding Purposes."

Jim
New Hampshire

Sounds like y'all need to start a new thread.