hot tub neutral

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sparky59

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Has anyone checked the neutral amps on a 50 amp hot tub circuit to see what the actual load is? I have seen several that had the neutral reduced to #8 conductor. I thought i might save a few bucks when i buy that new roll of white.
 
sparky59 said:
Has anyone checked the neutral amps on a 50 amp hot tub circuit to see what the actual load is? I have seen several that had the neutral reduced to #8 conductor. I thought i might save a few bucks when i buy that new roll of white.
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I would think it would be different with different tubs. The manufacturer should speck it.
 
I actually called a hot tub company once and asked about this because they had a spec that insisted that all conductors, including the EGC, be #6. They had no clue what I was asking and just parroted back the same "minimum #6" spec that was in the manual.

I ended up running a #10 neutral and ground.
 
peter d said:
I actually called a hot tub company once and asked about this because they had a spec that insisted that all conductors, including the EGC, be #6. They had no clue what I was asking and just parroted back the same "minimum #6" spec that was in the manual.

I ended up running a #10 neutral and ground.
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Yep, never understood where they come up with this stuff...
 
peter d said:
I actually called a hot tub company once and asked about this because they had a spec that insisted that all conductors, including the EGC, be #6. They had no clue what I was asking and just parroted back the same "minimum #6" spec that was in the manual.

I ended up running a #10 neutral and ground.
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Peter.,,

Normally ., I don't have much issue with the hottubs but however what it got my attetion when you ran #10 neutral and ground.

Now i do understand the netual part but not on that dangbat ground and if you don't mind explaing to me about this part how you end up like this ??

Sorry to pick on your mind today.,, but i just want to make sure i can see your side of view on this one.

Merci,Marc
 
peter d said:
I actually called a hot tub company once and asked about this because they had a spec that insisted that all conductors, including the EGC, be #6. They had no clue what I was asking and just parroted back the same "minimum #6" spec that was in the manual.

I ended up running a #10 neutral and ground.
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We each have to draw are own lines, I personally would run what they asked for knowing full well it was a waste of time. I would sleep better.
 
If the manual to the hot tub says #6, run #6, I don't care if #14 would be ok. I don't want the HO coming back later and saying, the manual says this and he ran this. We don't need all that bsing.
 
peter d said:
I actually called a hot tub company once and asked about this because they had a spec that insisted that all conductors, including the EGC, be #6. They had no clue what I was asking and just parroted back the same "minimum #6" spec that was in the manual.

I ended up running a #10 neutral and ground.
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A man that can think for himself. My kind of guy. :cool:
 
stickboy1375 said:
Liability of what? Nothing ever happening?
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Liability is when your going to alter what was called for.Nothing has happened yet and may never,but if it does then its falling on you.Someone gets killed and they determin it was cause your wire was too small you will get sued.Always follow or exceed the mfg instructions.
 
My own tub requires a 60a. There is less than 5a on the neutral.
2 5-hp pumps, and 2 1-hp pumps, all are 240v. Another 1/4 hp pump which runs 24/7 is 120v. The heater is 240v. The light and step down transformer for the stereo, is 120v. I have no idea how the ozone generator is powered or what with.
 
If something goes wrong you will be sued NOT MATTER HOW GOOD, legal, correct, whatever, your installation was.

Everybody will be sued, that's the way it is. People are greedy, "Victims" tend to be the greediest.

See Station Night Culb Fire or the loser that is suing the maker of a bseball bat becuse a child was injured by a ball hit by that bat. There was no warning that the bat was dangerous.

I say lock those people up for stupidity.
 
electricmanscott said:
If something goes wrong you will be sued NOT MATTER HOW GOOD, legal, correct, whatever, your installation was.

Everybody will be sued, that's the way it is. People are greedy, "Victims" tend to be the greediest.

See Station Night Culb Fire or the loser that is suing the maker of a bseball bat becuse a child was injured by a ball hit by that bat. There was no warning that the bat was dangerous.

I say lock those people up for stupidity.
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Yes they sue everyone.So best thing to do is cover yourself best you can.That starts with following instructions.
 
The reason they want to do this is on a lot of hottubs the heater is 240 and many of the pumps and motors are 120 on a gfi internal to the control panel so the figuring is why run a #6 for the neutral when the max imbalance of the 120 v load is 20 amps. This is the reason.
 
quogueelectric said:
The reason they want to do this is on a lot of hottubs the heater is 240 and many of the pumps and motors are 120 on a gfi internal to the control panel so the figuring is why run a #6 for the neutral when the max imbalance of the 120 v load is 20 amps. This is the reason.
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Yes, it's simple unbalanced load theory. Who cares what the instructions say?
#6 is no better than #10 when the imbalance is a few amps. Even if taken to task IFO a lawyer or prosecutor, they have to prove your guilt, you don't prove your innocence. How are they going to prove your #10 caused an electrical failure, the instruction booklet isn't scientific evidence. It's manufacturer's opinion.
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
Yes, it's simple unbalanced load theory. Who cares what the instructions say?
#6 is no better than #10 when the imbalance is a few amps. Even if taken to task IFO a lawyer or prosecutor, they have to prove your guilt, you don't prove your innocence. How are they going to prove your #10 caused an electrical failure, the instruction booklet isn't scientific evidence. It's manufacturer's opinion.
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I'd rather buy #6 white than a lawyer's time. It's hard to refute the manufacturer's opinion.
 
frenchelectrican said:
Sorry to pick on your mind today.,, but i just want to make sure i can see your side of view on this one.

Merci,Marc
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Not a problem. :)

A few reasons - I ran NM cable to the tub (6/3 with a #10 ground) on the interior of the house. I didn't see the point of changing over to a #6 ground wire inside the sealtight from the disconnect to the tub. And there was no way I was going to pipe the circuit back to the panel to satisfy their questionable requirement. I don't remember the size of the circuit but I think it was 50 amps.

As for the #10 neutral, there was hardly and load on the neutral so it was more than big enough to handle the motor and lights in the tub.

The bottom line is that the EGC was sized per NEC and code compliant. As for the manufacturers spec of minimum #6 for all conductors, I have no idea if it's part of their "listing and labeling" or it's just some silly "cover your rear" spec that they have because they don't understand electricity. :)
 
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I was not thinking layers as much as no call backs.

Six months from now the tub burns out a pump, or a heater, they call a service guy and he points out 'That electrician did not wire it right' Now of course the smaller connector had nothing to do with it but now the customer is convinced it did. Now they want it fixed and they want you to pay for the tub parts.

Sell them the 6 AWG to start with. :)
 
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