Hot tub, single-family home

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fdes1879

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Hi all,
Exterior hot tub in a single family home does not require an emergency shutoff switch as thus in a commercial application. A disconnect switch is required though.Does the disconnect switch need to be in line of sight? All the codes on disconnect switches for hot tubs apply to commercial applications and say single-family dwellings need not apply. I have many customers that do not want to see a slightly weatherproof disconnect on the side of their house or garage. Can the disconnect be installed inside the garage within the required feet of the hot tub out of site?
Thanks
 
fdes1879 said:
Hi all,
Exterior hot tub in a single family home does not require an emergency shutoff switch as thus in a commercial application. A disconnect switch is required though.Does the disconnect switch need to be in line of sight? All the codes on disconnect switches for hot tubs apply to commercial applications and say single-family dwellings need not apply. I have many customers that do not want to see a slightly weatherproof disconnect on the side of their house or garage. Can the disconnect be installed inside the garage within the required feet of the hot tub out of site?
Thanks
Click to expand...


All disconnects must be within sight and no more than 50' if they are to be considered the disconnect for the equipment.
 
Two sections to read


680.12 Maintenance Disconnecting Means. One or more
means to simultaneously disconnect all ungrounded conductors
shall be provided for all utilization equipment other
than lighting. Each means shall be readily accessible and
within sight from its equipment and shall be located at least
1.5 m (5 ft) horizontally from the inside walls of a pool,
spa, fountain, or hot tub unless separated from the open
water by a permanently installed barrier that provides a
1.5 m (5 ft) reach path or greater. This horizontal distance is
to be measured from the water’s edge along the shortest
path required to reach the disconnect.
Click to expand...


Definitions

In Sight From (Within Sight From, Within Sight).
Where this Code specifies that one equipment shall be “in
sight from,” “within sight from,” or “within sight of,” and so
forth, another equipment, the specified equipment is to be visible
and not more than 15 m (50 ft) distant from the other.
Click to expand...
 
IMHO "within sight" does not prevent you from enclosing the disconnect in a nice wooden box on the wall.
You can still see someone as they walk over to close the disconnect while you are working. :)
 
I had to explain the "within sight" to a potential customer a few weeks ago, he asked me why. I said "so I know who to get mad at for turning on electricity while I'm working on it."

He may not have thought my comment was funny: I didn't get the job.
 
IMHO "within sight" does not prevent you from enclosing the disconnect in a nice wooden box on the wall.
You can still see someone as they walk over to close the disconnect while you are working. :)

​
What if you have an electrical panel (main panel or subpanel) feeding a spa that is within sight and is greater than 5' and less than 50' away.
Per section 680.12 Maintenance Disconnecting Means the service disconnect must be "readily accessible", and must be "within sight". Assuming that the breaker feeding the spa is clearly labeled would you still need a spa breaker panel next to the main/sub panel? In other words, do you need a separate disconnect to ensure that the a service technician does not trip the wrong breaker before accessing the equipment?
 
fdes1879 said:
I have many customers that do not want to see a slightly weatherproof disconnect on the side of their house or garage. Can the disconnect be installed inside the garage within the required feet of the hot tub out of site?
Thanks
Click to expand...
You can always say "What if your young daughter jumps into the tub and gets her hair caught in the drain ? Would you want the disconnect in sight or have to run into the house or garage to shut the tub down ?" Of course the usual smart-alec answer is going to be something like "I don't have a daughter !!":rant:
 
readydave8 said:
I had to explain the "within sight" to a potential customer a few weeks ago, he asked me why. I said "so I know who to get mad at for turning on electricity while I'm working on it."

He may not have thought my comment was funny: I didn't get the job.
Click to expand...

goldstar said:
You can always say "What if your young daughter jumps into the tub and gets her hair caught in the drain ? Would you want the disconnect in sight or have to run into the house or garage to shut the tub down ?" Of course the usual smart-alec answer is going to be something like "I don't have a daughter !!":rant:
Click to expand...


Why not just tell them the truth? It's a code requirement and there is nothing you can do about it.
 
DrWho2000 said:
IMHO "within sight" does not prevent you from enclosing the disconnect in a nice wooden box on the wall.
You can still see someone as they walk over to close the disconnect while you are working.
Click to expand...

The code requires the disconnect to be withing site, not just the location of the disconnect.

So in my opinion you cannot enclose the maintenance disconnect within anything other than maybe glass.


What if you have an electrical panel (main panel or subpanel) feeding a spa that is within sight and is greater than 5' and less than 50' away.
Per section 680.12 Maintenance Disconnecting Means the service disconnect must be "readily accessible", and must be "within sight". Assuming that the breaker feeding the spa is clearly labeled would you still need a spa breaker panel next to the main/sub panel? In other words, do you need a separate disconnect to ensure that the a service technician does not trip the wrong breaker before accessing the equipment?
Click to expand...

If the breaker in the panel is within sight, and to me this means not behind the panel cover you would not need another disconnect.
 
iwire said:
If the breaker in the panel is within sight, and to me this means not behind the panel cover you would not need another disconnect.
Click to expand...

Are you saying that most disconnect are in violation since many have covers? :? I would prefer it behind the cover as it will take someone longer to shut it off. I am sure you don't mean what I am thinking but I cannot understand this post
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Are you saying that most disconnect are in violation since many have covers? :? I would prefer it behind the cover as it will take someone longer to shut it off. I am sure you don't mean what I am thinking but I cannot understand this post
Click to expand...

680.12 Maintenance Disconnecting Means. One or more
means to simultaneously disconnect all ungrounded conductors
shall be provided for all utilization equipment other
than lighting. Each means shall be readily accessible and
within sight from its equipment and shall be located at least
1.5 m (5 ft) horizontally from the inside walls of a pool,
spa, or hot tub unless separated from the open water by a
permanently installed barrier that provides a 1.5 m (5 ft)
reach path or greater. This horizontal distance is to be measured
from the water’s edge along the shortest path required
to reach the disconnect.
Click to expand...

That section requires the disconnecting means be within sight.

Is the disconnecting means the breaker or the panel cover?

If you use a fused switch that would change things.

Yeah, I bet this not enforced that way too often but it is what it says.
 
Why would it change for fuses (a/c units) and isn't it visible if I leave the cover open while working on it? I have never heard anyone look at it this way. The enclosures are called disconnect-- ie I need an a/s disconnect. I believe the manufacturers called them that also.
 
If the cover presents a problem then 99+% of all disconnecting means in dwellings for various items are in violation, unless you have a panel with no door for items otherwise within sight of the panel.

Typical "A/C disconnects" have a door over the operating mechanism, and are used for water heaters and other appliances as well.

The panel behind a plywood door or similar - is debatable whether it can be behind the plywood door. But if is determined it can be - I have no problem with allowing any breaker inside to still be considered a disconnecting means for something "within sight" of the door/panel. Not like someone will enter the space behind the door and potentially operate your disconnecting means without you being able to see them when servicing that appliance which is the whole point of the "within sight" requirement.
 
growler said:
Why not just tell them the truth? It's a code requirement and there is nothing you can do about it.
Click to expand...
Yes, I should know better than to explain why something is in codebook, it often leads to customer insisting I do something wrong, because whatever the danger, he would make sure it never happens to him.

At most I should use my line about "most of code requirements are in there because someone got killed" or similiar.
 
kwired said:
If the cover presents a problem then 99+% of all disconnecting means in dwellings for various items are in violation, unless you have a panel with no door for items otherwise within sight of the panel.

Typical "A/C disconnects" have a door over the operating mechanism, and are used for water heaters and other appliances as well.
Click to expand...

Those are items you are talking about are listed as disconnects, cabinet covers are not.

I am not arguing intent, just pointing out what the words they chose to use say.
 
kwired said:
The panel behind a plywood door or similar - is debatable whether it can be behind the plywood door.
Click to expand...

If it is behind the door is it in sight?

Again forget intent and what normally see and do, just read the words.

I don't expect anyone to change their SOP.
 
iwire said:
If it is behind the door is it in sight?

Again forget intent and what normally see and do, just read the words.

I don't expect anyone to change their SOP.
Click to expand...
If the door is open (locked open??) the disconnect would usually be in sight. Is it required to be within sight at all times, whether it is being used or not?
We can guess the intent of the code section, but the language could be interpreted to mean "always in sight."
 
GoldDigger said:
If the door is open (locked open??) the disconnect would usually be in sight. Is it required to be within sight at all times, whether it is being used or not?
We can guess the intent of the code section, but the language could be interpreted to mean "always in sight."
Click to expand...

IMO as written it must always be in sight.

I think it is just a case of careless wording.
 
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