Hot tub, single-family home

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boatfull said:
Usually there is a access area for the motor under the tub. We usually put the disconnects there.
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I don't think that qualifies as the codes states at least 5' away and no more than 50'.

680.12 Maintenance Disconnecting Means. One or more
means to simultaneously disconnect all ungrounded conductors
shall be provided for all utilization equipment other
than lighting. Each means shall be readily accessible and
within sight from its equipment and shall be located at least
1.5 m (5 ft) horizontally from the inside walls of a pool,
spa, fountain, or hot tub unless separated from the open
water by a permanently installed barrier that provides a
1.5 m (5 ft) reach path or greater. This horizontal distance is
to be measured from the water’s edge along the shortest
path required to reach the disconnect.
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iwire said:
Those are items you are talking about are listed as disconnects, cabinet covers are not.

I am not arguing intent, just pointing out what the words they chose to use say.
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iwire said:
If it is behind the door is it in sight?

Again forget intent and what normally see and do, just read the words.

I don't expect anyone to change their SOP.
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Understand, and also realize some inspectors can be really strict in reading it.

I also feel it is hard to write a code that can cover every possible situation and that a little personal judgement will be involved by the installer and the inspector.

It is also possible to have a hot tub with a disconnect within sight of the tub, but maybe not within sight of the pump/heater/controls access panel, so you don't have line of sight of what really matters the most yet many would still say it is code compliant. Same goes for a lot of industrial machinery.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I don't think that qualifies as the codes states at least 5' away and no more than 50'.
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680.42 Outdoor Installations
A spa or hot tub installed outdoors shall comply with the provisions of Parts I and II of this article, except as permitted in 680.42(A) and (B), that would otherwise apply to pools installed outdoors.


Could be a fine line here as the exception to parts I & II - 680.42(A) and (B), deals with a max on cord lenght. One could argue that when the lower door is opened to the equipment - a plug connection to the equipment would then be readily accessible. This is a maintenance disconnect only has nothing to do with a quick find shutdown. Having the disconnect separated by a permanate barrier the 5' rule is nullified( a door works both ways) IMO
 
kwired said:
Except for a few instances where the spa is custom built on site, isn't the entire packaged spa "the equipment"?
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I figured you would say that. If we want to that route the cable or conduit feeding it is also equipment.

But IMO if you read the code section it is clear they mean the equipment that is being serviced not the entire tub.
 
Many years ago I installed a disconnect about 7- 10' from the tub mounted on the dwelling. The access to the motor was insight of the disconnect but the inspector said if my head was in there working I couldn't see the disconnect. I couldn't believe it but I had to install another disconnect under the tub.
 
I think you have to use a little common sense sometimes.

A disconnecting means behind you when working on equipment may seem to be within sight yet you can't actually see it when you are working on the equipment. If you needed to see it at all times when working on equipment it would almost have to be within the prohibited zone that extends 5 feet from the edge of the water, or grow some more eyes.
 
iwire said:
Too me commonsense says in sight from means in sight from. :)
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So for a typical packaged spa where do you put the disconnect so that you can see it at all times while you are working inside the primary service access that is also more then 5 feet away from the edge of the water?

IMO not possible to comply with this requirement. You can get it close enough that if someone is in the area you can sort of reasonably monitor the status of that disconnect, but you can not see it at all times. Better place your lock on that disconnect if you want assurance it can not be turned on when you take your eyes off of it for a little bit.

I'm pretty sure OSHA would like to see that lock installed. I also think NEC doesn't necessarily want it visible at all times while the equipment is serviced, just in close proximity so it is easier to find and identify.

Though this thread is about hot tubs, a motor driven machine can still have motor driven components not in sight of the motor disconnect, this disconnecting means is about more then just the motor itself on such machines. Not all machines can have a disconnect within sight of all motor driven components.
 
kwired said:
Though this thread is about hot tubs, a motor driven machine can still have motor driven components not in sight of the motor disconnect, this disconnecting means is about more then just the motor itself on such machines. Not all machines can have a disconnect within sight of all motor driven components.
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I disagree, the motors that are out of sight would need their own disconnects.
 
iwire said:
I disagree, the motors that are out of sight would need their own disconnects.
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As well as driven portions of the load not close or within sight of the motor? Disconnecting means is for the driven load as much as it is for the motor.
 
kwired said:
As well as driven portions of the load not close or within sight of the motor? Disconnecting means is for the driven load as much as it is for the motor.
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The NEC specifies a disconnect must be in sight from from the motor and the driven machinery. See 430.102(B).

In my opinion there is no limit to how many disconnects that might require.
 
iwire said:
The NEC specifies a disconnect must be in sight from from the motor and the driven machinery. See 430.102(B).

In my opinion there is no limit to how many disconnects that might require.
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a majority of what is out there has just a disconnect near the motor. I can show you a lot of machines in just grain handling operations that have moving machinery far from the motor, I would love to be able to profit from putting several disconnects around said machines, but will be underbid by someone that only puts one near the motor - and he will still pass inspection.
 
kwired said:
a majority of what is out there has just a disconnect near the motor. I can show you a lot of machines in just grain handling operations that have moving machinery far from the motor, I would love to be able to profit from putting several disconnects around said machines, but will be underbid by someone that only puts one near the motor - and he will still pass inspection.
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I believe you 100%, that does not change my opinion of what the NEC requires.

Furthermore I am not sure I would use farms as example of wiring done well. :D
 
iwire said:
I believe you 100%, that does not change my opinion of what the NEC requires.

Furthermore I am not sure I would use farms as example of wiring done well. :D
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My mentioned references are at commercial grain elevators which are permitted and inspected - as well as at farms and more of those are being inspected then ever before:p
 
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