hot tub tripping breaker

[Riograndeelectric]

i recently rewired an existing hot tub and installed a GFI breaker previously it was non GFI protected. specs call out for a 40 amp circuit.

after I rewired and installed the GFI Breaker the hot tub started tripping the breaker when the heat was turned on. I ohmed it and also zeroed out the amp readings between all conductors and found there was some leakage of current. I advised customer to have heater replaced .
Heater has been replaced and still tripping the GFI when the heater is turned on.
I have not been back since the heater was replaced but was told by the owner that he had cal spa repair tech out and he can not figure out why the heater is tripping the GFI.. the hot tub was built in 1993. the owner bought the house some years back with the ho tub existing.
is there something I am missing or is there chance that the new heater element is defective.
any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Cameron

 

[Buck Parrish]

1)Are you sure it calls for a 40. Not all but, most are 50 amp.

2)Try the breaker on some thing else. Probably not, but, it might be defective.

3)When you unhook the wires at the hot tub. If the breaker does not trip.
Time to call the spa tech back. It could be the motor.

 

[ozark01]

You may have a bad GFCI breaker. Also is tub a 120/240 volt or a 240 volt with no neutral?

 

[Riograndeelectric]

You may have a bad GFCI breaker. Also is tub a 120/240 volt or a 240 volt with no neutral?

tub is 120/240 volt with Neutral and Ground.
this being a smaller tub the instructions on the tub junction box call out for a 40amp circuit. the amperage is fine is not close enough to 40 amps to Trip from over current.

the first time I had this problem I disconnected the heater element and the breaker held.

 

[ozark01]

Does the GFCI breaker have a connection for the neutral on the breaker?

 

[macmikeman]

Use your amprobe to check the equipment ground back to the source when the tub is on and heater is running, vs tub is on heater not running. If it won't hold long enough put a standard two pole breaker in for the test. If you have current on the egc and it gets above the gfi threshold spa man needs to put another element in again. I have had to push a spa maker hard to get them to fix the exact same problem as you have in the past, this is not the first time the manufacturer has had to respond to this same problem I will bet.

 

[Cow]

I'd meg the heating circuit and element, if necessary.

the first time I had this problem I disconnected the heater element and the breaker held.

Or I'd try this again with the new element, I'd also be tempted to replace the GFI breaker as well. I know spa techs like to blame the breaker as the culprit, so replacing it even though there most likely isn't anything wrong with it will take that variable out of the equation.

 

[ozark01]

Found this on a hot tub site. They sell the Connecticut Electric Spa GFCI Load Center.
*******

Why the Connecticut Electric Spa GFCI Load Center is the better choice:

Unfortunately, conventional load centers often perform unreliably with hot tubs due to the phenomenon called errant tripping. This false tripping is a great frustration to homeowners and electricians alike, often incorrectly attributed to a problem with the spa, when no problem exists.

Because of the reactive loads that spa motors present along with the resistance load of heaters, and the fact that parts of the spa including ozonators may run on 120V, common GFCI breakers sometimes react to a normal spa condition as if it were a ground fault. They can be very unreliable.

Our Spa Disconnect GFCI panel solves these problems. It's the dependable ground fault detector designed just for hot tubs. The specially-shielded GFCI prevents false tripping due to RF interference. It is also engineered for low-voltage stability to prevent tripping due to brownouts, fluctuations and mixed loads. If there is a ground fault, the fast-acting GFCI instantly disconnects the lines.

Note: The NEC and many jurisdictions REQUIRE the installation of a 120V outdoor GFCI outlet, located 10-20 feet away from a spa or pool, for safe operation of corded appliances.
GFCI Outdoor Outlet Example
Connecticut Electric's bonus 120V branch circuit has its own 15A circuit breaker, saving the expense of a separate wiring run for an outdoor outlet. This alone pays for itself! (Be sure to use a GFCI outlet receptacle for this circuit). Schematic & instructions included.

 

[480sparky]

My troubleshooting method:

Disconnect the conductors from the lugs of the tub and cap them off. Turn the breaker on. If it does not trip, it's the spa tech's problem.

 

[ozark01]

I wire pools and hot tubs for a local dealer (no pools this summer, he is sad!)
The biggest problem I've found with the tubs is moisture getting in the controls from leaks and condensation. Most of the newer spa control centers have plugs for each component so it is pretty each to unplug each motor, heater, etc, until the problem is found. Older spa control centers may not have this plug-in feature.

 

[glene77is]

Found this on a hot tub site. They sell the Connecticut Electric Spa GFCI Load Center.

Ozark,
Very interesting download.

 

[Riograndeelectric]

thank you for all of your input. I will be going back this Friday to check out the electrical including amping out the EGC. it is my belief that I also should not read any restive to ground on the heater am I correct on this. seems like when I first rewired it and the breaker was tripping I read some resitance to ground on the heater with the heater discounted form the hots but still ground to EGC.

 

[poolific]

Rewiring it might solve the problem well once the wiring is done I'm pretty sure you'll be able to work with the spa control systems correctly