Hot tub wiring

[emf10]

680.42 (c)

Yes and it is worded ambiguously (not unlike other codes). The NM is approved for "the connection to motor, heating, and control loads that are part of a self-contained spa or hot tub assembly. Wiring to an underwater luminaire shall comply with 680.23 or 680.33". If the intent is to allow NM for self contained spas with an underwater light they should clarify that. The light is not a motor or heating load but you could maybe argue it is a control load considering it goes to the controls first. If so, the ICC interpreted it wrong.

 

[fireryan]

680.25 b1 says the conductor cannot be smaller than 12. Where does it say the egc must be the same size and the ungrounded conductors

 

[emf10]

680.25 b1 says the conductor cannot be smaller than 12. Where does it say the egc must be the same size and the ungrounded conductors

Some manufacturer's instructions require that (and possibly with green insulation).

 

[finster1]

Spa wiring sizing

Spa wiring sizing

A 50a 240v spa would require 4 wires in a raceway same rules as for a pool. This means conduit, pvc, emt, special mc cable made for pools or metalic tubing or non metalic tubing....You may not use nm unless it is cord and plug connected. They also require a bonding conductor for hot tubs to the slab and shell of the motor or frame of the hot tub. Many hot tub manufacturers do request same size ground to be run to hot tub right back to service panel but this isn't in the code......but we do need to follow the manufacturers listing and labeling to be in complete compliance with code, so if the manufacturer states it in his manual then it should be there...Customers don't like sharing all the information required with us but it is our responsibility to get it anyhow.NM OR SE has an exception if there is an existing sub panel with conduit to it then it might be ok to use. You have too read the section of the code in 680. Also dont forget to install or include a gfci receptacle between 5'-10' of the tub....This is also the most common reason for failure of a hot tub installation....

 

[finster1]

hot tub wiring

hot tub wiring

A 50a 240v spa would require 4 wires in a raceway same rules as for a pool. This means conduit, pvc, emt, special mc cable made for pools or metalic tubing or non metalic tubing....You may not use nm unless it is cord and plug connected. They also require a bonding conductor for hot tubs to the slab and shell of the motor or frame of the hot tub. Many hot tub manufacturers do request same size ground to be run to hot tub right back to service panel but this isn't in the code......but we do need to follow the manufacturers listing and labeling to be in complete compliance with code, so if the manufacturer states it in his manual then it should be there...Customers don't like sharing all the information required with us but it is our responsibility to get it anyhow.NM OR SE has an exception if there is an existing sub panel with conduit to it then it might be ok to use. You have too read the section of the code in 680. Also dont forget to install or include a gfci receptacle between 5'-10' of the tub....This is also the most common reason for failure of a hot tub installation.... opps I think this might be twice not sure cause Iwasn't signed in the first time.
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My dad always said if you want to get something done ask a busy man.

 

[Minuteman]

Finster, what article are you quoting/paraphrasing?

 

[stickboy1375]

You may not use nm unless it is cord and plug connected. NM OR SE has an exception if there is an existing sub panel with conduit to it then it might be ok to use. You have too read the section of the code in 680.
__________________
My dad always said if you want to get something done ask a busy man.

Check out 680.42(C)

 

[jjhoward]

Some spas have carelessly worded specs that state all the conductors must be ..a specific gauge. I really don't think they want or need the grnd to be the same size as the current carrying conductors.

The inspectors here always ask for the data sheet of the unit. If it says ALL conductor must be XX gauge, you are putting in conduit.

 

[stickboy1375]

I really don't think they want or need the grnd to be the same size as the current carrying conductors.

I really think they do want the gound to be the same size as the CCC, why? probably because some YA-HOO told them it was better and safer this way. :roll:

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I just came from a meeting on art. 680 and it was a bit exciting in there. According to the person giving the class it is the intent of the code panel and NFPA that a hot tub with a light (factory installed) shall be install according to 680.23 and 680.33. Thus, IMO metal conduit would be required in the interior of the house in this scenario.

It makes total sense that the requirements for a light are different than that for a motor. Look at a pool motor-- It may be wired with nm cable but the light for the pool must be in conduit to protect the EGC whether it be in the house or the exterior of the house.

The light is the deciding factor-- no light then NM is good inside, if there is a light than raceway all the way with an insulated egc.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I really think they do want the gound to be the same size as the CCC, why? probably because some YA-HOO told them it was better and safer this way. :roll:

Covering their butts-- that's why.

 

[stickboy1375]

Covering their butts-- that's why.

Another CYA in effect.

 

[Minuteman]

Hi,
just wanted to know if it`s permissable to run a 6/3 romex cable on the interior of the house to the tub disconnect, Then run thwn to the tub in pvc .thanks

Again, we have strayed away from the OP (but not as bad as usual). Now we are discussing the use of NM to the disco, if there is a light in the tub. Does it change anyone's opinion, if the tub is equipped with LED lighting?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Again, we have strayed away from the OP (but not as bad as usual). Now we are discussing the use of NM to the disco, if there is a light in the tub. Does it change anyone's opinion, if the tub is equipped with LED lighting?

Read my post # 30. I address this issue. The led light should not make a difference in my post.

 

[emf10]

Also dont forget to install or include a gfci receptacle between 5'-10' of the tub....This is also the most common reason for failure of a hot tub installation....

I think this is 6-10ft for indoor installations (680.43A) and 6-20ft for outdoor dwelling installations (680.22A3), both need to be GFCI protected.

 

[finster1]

680 is very confusing but manufacturers listing supercedes code if in manufacturers manual....I don't understand sometimes why but it does...

 

[finster1]

Depends on which version of the code you guys in your area have excepted or practice........No??

 

[stickboy1375]

680 is very confusing but manufacturers listing supercedes code if in manufacturers manual....I don't understand sometimes why but it does...

I dont think its that confusing at all.

 

[finster1]

Confusing that hot tub manufacturer can put stipulations that will supercede defined calculation that are explicable without any requirement to explain reasoning...When you get a job to install a hot tub if the owner doesn't provide you with the manual ahead of time you cannot possible perform job correctly....What is in 680 will not be allowed to be generic

 

[LarryFine]

And if you want to know an easier way to do something difficult, ask a lazy person. :wink: