Hot Tubs & Equipotential Bonding

[George Stolz]

Are hot tubs installed outdoors required to adhere to the equipotential bonding requirements of 680.26?

 

[jwelectric]

I would say yes.

 

[George Stolz]

Follow-up question.

Suppose you had a prewire for a hot tub on bid. Not a full hook-up, just get the wire on that corner of the house, install a disconnect, and you're done.

They are installing a concrete pad in the area in question, which personally I would say requires a grid installed. There is no rebar in the patio/pad, just chickenwire. Therefore, rebar or a copper bonding grid would have to be constructed either by the electrician or at the electrician's request.

Would you include installing and/or connecting to an equipotential bonding grid in the prewire?

 

[hillbilly]

If not you, then who?
Are you going to make the final connection to the Hot tub?
I would at least spell it out clearly in my bid that either I or someone else will install the grid before the concrete is poured and give a price.
"Must call me when the site is ready for the grid installation"
If it doesn't get done, I don't hook it up.
What happens after you leave is out of your control.
steve

 

[charlie b]

I would suggest making a copy of the related NEC article, and including it with your bid. I would also offer a short, layman's explanation of why the grid is needed for the safety of those using the tub. Be sure to mention that it is not just the power to the tub's components that can cause a shock, but that issues with the utility or with a neighbor's power can create currents through the ground.

You need to make them understand this is a real safety concern. But do it gently, so they don't think you are just trying to make a few extra bucks.

In fact, I would suggest that you print out this thread, and show it to them.

 

[bphgravity]

This is going to be an issue trying to enforce. Can an inspector require an installation before the equipment is installed that requires the other installation?

 

[charlie b]

Will there be separate permits, one for the circuit that stops at the disconnect and a second for the circuit from the disconnect to the components of the tub? If so, I think the first can be signed off, even if ground has not been broken (or whatever) for the tub itself. But the second would require proof that the grid is in place.

 

[bphgravity]

Chances are that a second permit will not applied for and the spa will be installed without being inspected. This happens all the time. I see "pre-wiring" on a daily basis and probably only go back to inspect less than 50% of the final equipment installations. The primary reason for having something "pre-wired" is to make the final installation home-owner capable.

 

[jwelectric]

A question that every electrical contractor should ask him/her self is;
Who will be held liable should someone get hurt or killed from this type of prewire installation?

 

[infinity]

A question that every electrical contractor should ask him/her self is;
Who will be held liable should someone get hurt or killed from this type of prewire installation?

I hate to say it, but as a contractor I wouldn't really care about what happens after my work is complete and signed off. Many times plans call for circuits, disconnects, spare switches in switchboards, etc. all for equipment connections "by others". If Joe HO wants to put the tub in himself at a later date then the liability is his, not mine.

But in answer to George's question I would have them install the rebar grid within the concrete, bond a piece of #8 to it and leave it for the future. At least that way there is a reasonable chance that someone might actually connect it someday. Without it, the grid probably never gets installed.

 

[George Stolz]

If not you, then who?

That is my contention as well. If we don't do it, then we (as electricians) are committing the equipotential bonding grid to being lost once the pad is poured. IMO, the EC should make the homeowner aware of this an include it (clearly) in the bid.

This is going to be an issue trying to enforce. Can an inspector require an installation before the equipment is installed that requires the other installation?

I had lunch today with another member of the forum, rcarroll, and he brought that aspect of the situation to light. It hadn't occured to me.

His point was (if I make take the liberty to paraphrase) that there is no real proof as to what the disconnect is for.

Is this another example of a time when the installer can call an item something else to deviate from the code?

For example, consider 210.12. If you call a bedroom a "den" or an "office", then you can elude 210.12 (if you can get away with it.)

So, in this case, could an inspector reasonably enforce 680.26, or would that just open the door for disreputable EC's to install a lot of "future building" prewires?

But in answer to George's question I would have them install the rebar grid within the concrete, bond a piece of #8 to it and leave it for the future. At least that way there is a reasonable chance that someone might actually connect it someday. Without it, the grid probably never gets installed.

Would the A/C disconnect (or whatever box is used) be a proper place to land it?

 

[bphgravity]

So, in this case, could an inspector reasonably enforce 680.26, or would that just open the door for disreputable EC's to install a lot of "future building" prewires?

This is the real question. There are several issues that would have to be resolved, not just the bonding. What if receptacles are installed near the point where it appears the spa will be located? How far will the disconnect be from the spa? What if ceiling fans or luminaires are installed above the future spa location? How far can we go with this?

I don't necessarily feel that ALL contractors install "pre-wires" for the purposes of bypassing the codes or getting away with not complying with code requirements. I feel most provide the "pre-wire" as a courtesy to the homeowner and to make things easy for them in the future IF and when the installation is completed.

This goes back to the lighting outlet in the closet issue. Can the lighting outlet be blanked off for "future" use even though it violates the clearance required from the storage space? Most of you felt an inspector could not enforce a future installation.....