Eddy Current
Senior Member
I have always phased the hot wires black, red and, blue or brown, orange, and yellow depending on the voltage. One of the guys i started working with doesn't even phase the hots he says it doesn't matter.
Hot wire phasing does it matter?
- Thread starter Eddy Current
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
When you have two different voltages on the premises it does matter 210.5(C)
Eddy Current
Senior Member
What about 3 phase?
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
He means each system, such as in a building with both 277Y/480 and 208Y/120, should use different color groups.
Your examples are perfect examples. The colors chosen are not enforceable.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Conversely, he is correct if there is only a single nominal voltage on the premises.
If there were only 120/208 on the premise, no transformers, then there is technically no requirement to mark the phases of the conductors.
If there were only 120/208 on the premise, no transformers, then there is technically no requirement to mark the phases of the conductors.
harborrick
Member
- Location
- Irvine California
Phasing
Phasing
It is good practice to phase all your conductors.
Easier to troubleshoot and test.
I make all my employees phase everything.
Thanks Rick
Phasing
It is good practice to phase all your conductors.
Easier to troubleshoot and test.
I make all my employees phase everything.
Thanks Rick
- Location
- Logan, Utah
I agree that phasing coloring each phase of a system is good practice, but as George pointed out it is not enforcable for building with a single voltage system.
Chris
yankj
Senior Member
- Location
- Carrollton, Texas
I hate working on stuff that people like your partner wired.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
For the record, I do mark my lines or phases. I do have to be careful not to bite my tongue off when an inspector makes a statement like "Good job putting all your blacks on the left."
Eddy Current
Senior Member
So if they get mixed up it doesn't matter?
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
That's a pretty broad question, isn't it?
In the case I mentioned, it was a three phase service with panels deriving two of their phases from it in an apartment. We used 3-conductor (plus ground) SE-R to feed the panels, which means there was only a black and a red. I can guarantee you only 33% of the panels at best had the correct phasing, yet for some reason the inspector thought it was a mark of quality to have the black conductor on the left and the red conductor on the right. You see what I mean?
Would it matter enough to you to trace through the gear and determine which blacks and reds should be blue, and so on?
In the case I mentioned, it was a three phase service with panels deriving two of their phases from it in an apartment. We used 3-conductor (plus ground) SE-R to feed the panels, which means there was only a black and a red. I can guarantee you only 33% of the panels at best had the correct phasing, yet for some reason the inspector thought it was a mark of quality to have the black conductor on the left and the red conductor on the right. You see what I mean?
Would it matter enough to you to trace through the gear and determine which blacks and reds should be blue, and so on?
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Simple answer: Yes, wherever you're sharing a neutral, and/or for line-to-line loads.
The colors don't matter in "mixed up," the electrical connections do.
mjc
mjc
I agree with George , been on many wire pulls where the Neutral phasing tape came off the condutor. The guy that phased the conuctors did'nt put a piece of black tape on black phase and we had to ring out the wires to determine which one went where. So the good practice becomes part of the trade tricks to save time and effort.
mjc
I agree with George , been on many wire pulls where the Neutral phasing tape came off the condutor. The guy that phased the conuctors did'nt put a piece of black tape on black phase and we had to ring out the wires to determine which one went where. So the good practice becomes part of the trade tricks to save time and effort.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Here we have allot of industrial in our area, so our utility will set up a CW phasing right from the meter, and if I have allot of motor loads I will continue the CW phasing through out the panels so all the motors are the correct rotation right off from the start, this is critical for some loads such as hydraulic pumps, oil pumps, and such as they can be damaged if rotated in the wrong direction, but as far a light commercial and or residential, it gets whats on the truck.
I am a Black-Red-Blue guy on 208 Y services and feeders for the following reason.
If you have a single phase 120V MC cable what color is your hot, it's Black
If you have a single phase 208V MC cable what color are your hots, Black-Red
A full 208V 3 phase MC cable your hots will be Black-Red-Blue
If you have a single phase 120V MC cable what color is your hot, it's Black
If you have a single phase 208V MC cable what color are your hots, Black-Red
A full 208V 3 phase MC cable your hots will be Black-Red-Blue
Branch Circuit Phasing
Branch Circuit Phasing
I have three circuits feeding 277V lighting fixtures. The home run is a 10/4 MC cable with colored conductors (B,O,Y). The MC jumpers from the ceiling j. box to the light fixtures and from fixture to fixture must match the color associated with the phase wire they connect to in the j. box, correct?
Branch Circuit Phasing
I have three circuits feeding 277V lighting fixtures. The home run is a 10/4 MC cable with colored conductors (B,O,Y). The MC jumpers from the ceiling j. box to the light fixtures and from fixture to fixture must match the color associated with the phase wire they connect to in the j. box, correct?
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
About the only thing doing this will accomplish is making sure the loads are balanced across the multi-wire circuit, there are no 3-phase lights that will use more then two conductors?
M_J_C
Member
- Location
- Southeast Florida
A NEC addendum I whole-heartedly agree with....
A NEC addendum I whole-heartedly agree with....
I hope this link works, it is a local NEC addendum for a jurisdiction that I compete for work in that requires marking of each feeder conductor, and the required color of the markings. They basically made a set of tables for 215.8 (which doesn't exist, yet).
OK, I checked the link in preveiw mde, it does work but starts you at the begining of the code amendments. The NEC amendments are about halfway down the page.
http://library4.municode.com:80/def...fe12faeb57d60b7758132f0e565a4e&infobase=10323
A NEC addendum I whole-heartedly agree with....
I hope this link works, it is a local NEC addendum for a jurisdiction that I compete for work in that requires marking of each feeder conductor, and the required color of the markings. They basically made a set of tables for 215.8 (which doesn't exist, yet).
OK, I checked the link in preveiw mde, it does work but starts you at the begining of the code amendments. The NEC amendments are about halfway down the page.
http://library4.municode.com:80/def...fe12faeb57d60b7758132f0e565a4e&infobase=10323
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
so do you also have MC cable with red-white and blue white for 120 volt loads connected to other than A phase or does all your 120 volt non MWBC's go on A phase? Or how about a 208 volt single phase load connected to phase B and C?
They do make tape or paint if you feel a need to mark them.
I myself generally have no need to know what two phases I have at a 208 volt load. At the panel I can tell which 2 phases are used based on where the breaker is mounted in the panel. This is more important to know here as we would like to balance the load across all phases in the panel as much as possible. If it is a three phase load I already know all three phases are there but if rotation does not matter I still could care less which one is which most of the time so why mark it other than requirement because of multiple voltage systems in the facility? The load certainly does not work any different because of conductor colors or markings. You can use green white and gray to supply a motor and as long as you apply the right voltage and ampacity the motor will not know the difference.
- Status