Hot work again

[brother]

Was just have a discussion with a friend of mine. It appears that there is still laxitivity over the understanding of what 'hot work is' . Well, its only a 20 amp breaker single pole that has to be installed in 120/208 volt panel. They can turn off the main breaker in the panel that would leave the buss dead, however the lugs/feed to the main breaker is still hot. I tell them that this is still considered 'hot work' and panel still energized under the nfpa 70e because of the expose hot leads to the breaker.

They claim they have design some type of 'plastic cover' to go over the main breaker/hot lugs. So now its not 'hot work' anymore. What do you think? I see this as feasible, but I still warn them to be careful. Not sure how the 'safety' inspectors would view this. What do you think??

 

[jusme123]

if your are going to kill the main in the panal why not just kill the feed to the
entire panal?

 

[brother]

if your are going to kill the main in the panal why not just kill the feed to the
entire panal?

they had 'parrelled' off of the feed going to this panel. So the breaker that feeds that panel would shut off other panels that work is not being done.

 

[iaov]

This all seems very much like over kill to change out 1 20 amp breaker.:-?

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

This all seems very much like over kill to change out 1 20 amp breaker.:-?

It is for a qualified electrician. But if live parts then it still is hot. I would never tell a man to do it if questioned it being safe enough. Would i do it ,YES but that does not make it ok.

 

[480sparky]

Silly question, but how do you put a 'plastic cover' over the hot lugs and not consider it hot work?

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Silly question, but how do you put a 'plastic cover' over the hot lugs and not consider it hot work?

It now leaves you with nothing hot to touch. Now as long as cover is installed while panel is dead then we are safe. I dont see this as happening often.

 

[zog]

I hate this question but here it goes.

Personally, I think having the gaurding installed as you mentioned for this type of panel and work is perfectly safe, but that is just my view.

There are 3 issues here addressed in the 70E. 1st, justification, why cant the whole panel be shut down? It needs to be justified and that is hard to do.

2nd issue, shock protection, the cover you mentioned is considered "gaurding" and removes the shock hazard.

3rd issue, arc flash, installing a plastic cover will not remove the arc flash hazard, so assuming the work is occuring inside the arc flash boundary, you are interacting with equipment that is energized (Even though the actual part of the equipment you are working on may not be) and you need to waer the proper PPE for arc flash protection.

 

[480sparky]

It now leaves you with nothing hot to touch. Now as long as cover is installed while panel is dead then we are safe. I dont see this as happening often.

Once the cover or dead front is off, you are working hot.

Then you put the 'plastic cover' in place.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I submitted a proposal to require, that where breaker panels are used as service equipment, that the manufacturer of the panel provide a cover for the line side terminations that provides shock and arc flash protection that is equivalent to that provided by the panel enclosure. This design is already required by the Canadian Electrical Code. The picture is from a prototype line side barrier for a new design panel for the Canadian market.

 

[brother]

I hate this question but here it goes.

Personally, I think having the gaurding installed as you mentioned for this type of panel and work is perfectly safe, but that is just my view.

There are 3 issues here addressed in the 70E. 1st, justification, why cant the whole panel be shut down? It needs to be justified and that is hard to do.

2nd issue, shock protection, the cover you mentioned is considered "gaurding" and removes the shock hazard.

3rd issue, arc flash, installing a plastic cover will not remove the arc flash hazard, so assuming the work is occuring inside the arc flash boundary, you are interacting with equipment that is energized (Even though the actual part of the equipment you are working on may not be) and you need to waer the proper PPE for arc flash protection.

Yes this goes back to the 'justification' technicality. If we follow the letter of the law, it would be hard to do that, claiming its 'infeasible' when actually its extremely inconvient.

I think these guys are just going to use the 'ppe' (if they do that), turn the main off to this panel only and take the cover off and put the plasitic over the hot lugs to the main breaker.