Hotel Suite Receptacle Placement

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tnengineer

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I have a hotel project that has provisions for cooking equipment. 210.60 states that all requirements of 210.52 are required to be met. Does this mean that the spacing according to 210.60 (B) cannot be applied to this room?

I understood the code to read that a typical hotel guest room should meet the requirements of 210.52 A & D because that is the only parts of a dwelling unit that apply. When you have permanent provisions for cooking, you need to meet all of the requirements for a dwelling.

210.60 B doesn't specifically distinguish between a standard hotel room and a hotel room with permanent provisions for cooking.

I have utilized 210.60 B in the past with these projects with success, but I am getting resistance on a new project where the inspector does not think that the recpetacle placement in 210.60B applys to guest rooms with cooking?

What are your experiences/opinions?
 
tnengineer said:
I have a hotel project that has provisions for cooking equipment. 210.60 states that all requirements of 210.52 are required to be met. Does this mean that the spacing according to 210.60 (B) cannot be applied to this room?

I understood the code to read that a typical hotel guest room should meet the requirements of 210.52 A & D because that is the only parts of a dwelling unit that apply. When you have permanent provisions for cooking, you need to meet all of the requirements for a dwelling.

210.60 B doesn't specifically distinguish between a standard hotel room and a hotel room with permanent provisions for cooking.

I have utilized 210.60 B in the past with these projects with success, but I am getting resistance on a new project where the inspector does not think that the recpetacle placement in 210.60B applys to guest rooms with cooking?

What are your experiences/opinions?
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I think the last sentence in 210.60(A) refers you to 210.52 which includes all of 210.52 that's pertainent. I tend to agree with your inspector. :smile: I wonder if the 2008 NEC has "clarified" this provision? Seems a little muddy. :confused:
 
210.60 says all required from 210.52 need to be there, spaced as if the room had no furniture, they may however be moved to a more convenient location and exceed the spacing requirements per 210.60(B). IMHO cooking equip. has no bearing on this situation. Read 210.18
 
There are two specific rooms mentioned here one's with permanent cooking facilities and one's without. The one's with get treated like a studio apartment with all of the requirements of 250.52 being met.

Rooms without permanent cooking facilities follow 210.60(B) which references 210.52(A) for the number of receptacles required but not their placement. The 2',6' and 12' rules does not apply for placement and the receptacles can be placed according to the permanent furniture layout with two receptacles requiring readily accessibility.

So if you have permanent cooking facilities you follow 250.52 completely. If you do not you would follow 250.60(B).
 
I have to agree with Barbeer. Although, I don't think the NEC could make it more unclear or confusing.

210.60B tells you that you can move the outlets as necessary to work with permenant furniture. I don't think the presence of cooking provisions has any effect on how this applies to 210.52(A).

Steve
 
210.60 Guest Rooms or Guest Suites.
(A) General. Guest rooms or guest suites in hotels, motels, and similar occupancies shall have receptacle outlets installed in accordance with 210.52(A) and 210.52(D). Guest rooms or guest suites provided with permanent provisions for cooking shall have receptacle outlets installed in accordance with all of the applicable rules in 210.52.
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This creates two separate requirements:
1- Rooms with permanent provisions for cooking
2- Rooms without permanent provisions for cooking

The latter is required to follow 210.60(B):

210.60(B) Receptacle Placement. In applying the provisions of 210.52(A), the total number of receptacle outlets shall not be less than the minimum number that would comply with the provisions of that section. These receptacle outlets shall be permitted to be located conveniently for permanent furniture layout. At least two receptacle outlets shall be readily accessible.
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This requires you to use the same number of receptacles as outlined in 210.52(A) but their placement is not bound by the provisions of 210.52(A).
 
If the code dictates that a hotel room without cooking has to follow 210.52 A, where do you see in 210.60 B that it is specifically allows hotel rooms without cooking to move the receptacles but not hotel rooms with cooking? It does not distinguish.

210.60A is only telling you which portions of 210.52 apply to that type of room. 210.60B is allowing the spacing of 210.52 A in any guest room to be changed. 210.60B is under Guest Room 210.60 and does not specifically state an inclusion or exclusion for 210.60B. How are you distinguishing?
 
tnengineer said:
210.60A is only telling you which portions of 210.52 apply to that type of room. 210.60B is allowing the spacing of 210.52 A in any guest room to be changed. 210.60B is under Guest Room 210.60 and does not specifically state an inclusion or exclusion for 210.60B.
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I agree. Barbeer got it right. Figure out how many receptacles would be needed for the space based on 210.52 and then move them where it is convenient. Just remember you need to have at least as many as 210.52 would require.
 
tnengineer said:
If the code dictates that a hotel room without cooking has to follow 210.52 A, where do you see in 210.60 B that it is specifically allows hotel rooms without cooking to move the receptacles but not hotel rooms with cooking? It does not distinguish.
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It's pretty specific:

210.60 Guest Rooms or Guest Suites.
(A) General. Guest rooms or guest suites provided with permanent provisions for cooking shall have receptacle outlets installed in accordance with all of the applicable rules in 210.52.
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All of these rules would include the 2',6' and 12' spacing requirements.


Without cooking provisions, 210.60(B) tells us that when applying 250.52(A) only the total number of receptacles required need to comply with 250.52(A). Placement is only required where convenient.

250.60(B) Receptacle Placement. In applying the provisions of 210.52(A), the total number of receptacle outlets shall not be less than the minimum number that would comply with the provisions of that section. These receptacle outlets shall be permitted to be located conveniently for permanent furniture layout. At least two receptacle outlets shall be readily accessible. Where receptacles are installed behind the bed, the receptacle shall be located to prevent the bed from contacting any attachment plug that may be installed or the receptacle shall be provided with a suitable guard.
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