Hotels & AFCI's

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rcarroll

rcarroll

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Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
I looked at a hotel plan & some of the suites have microwave ovens & refrigerators in them. Would these require afci protection required by 210.18? I realize the code mentions "permanent provisions for cooking". Even a range/oven is cord & plug connected. Any thoughts will be appreciated. Thanks
 
I would not consider a microwave as permanent cooking equipment but then again the code does not define permanent. I think a counter microwave is not permanent however if it is range hood microwave, even if it is cord and plug, I still think that's permanent.
 
Only your local AHJ can make that call. What is considered "Permanent Provisions" can vary widely.

If you read the original proposal, it seems clear the panel did not intend to include a guest room with only a refrigerator and microwave. See 2-242 Log #1033 of the 2004 ROP.

I personally would not require guest rooms or suites from meeting the requirements of a dwelling unless it had the same kitchen provisions as a dwelling including building/fire code requirements for a kitchen.
 
If the guest suite is considered to have permanent cooking provision then the branch circuits for SA and bathroom receptacles that apply to dwellings seems to be necessary. Yikes- never noticed that.
 
Here is the wording from the 2008 NEC Draft

Dwelling Unit. One or more rooms arranged for complete,
independent housekeeping purposes, with space for eating,
living, and sleeping; facilities for cooking; and provisions
for sanitation. [ROP 1-27]
Click to expand...

IMO if it has Micro it has provisions for cooking.

You did not think the manufactures of AFCIs where going to miss out on these potential sales did you? :rolleyes:
 
iwire said:
If I recall Ryan mentioned in the 2008 NEC 'permanent' is being removed from 'provisions for cooking' sentence.
Click to expand...
I don't think so , unless there is something I'm not seeing?

Report on Proposals A2007 — Copyright, NFPA

2-160 Log #2734 NEC-P02 Final Action: Accept
(210.18)
____________________________________________________________
Submitter: Jim Pauley, Square D Company
Recommendation: Revise 210.18 as shown below:
210.18 Guest Rooms and Guest Suites.
Guest rooms and guest suites that are provided with permanent provisions for
cooking shall have branch circuits and outlets installed to meet the rules for
dwelling units.
Substantiation: The outlet provisions for guest rooms and suites are outlined
in 210.60 and 210.70. 210.18 is a necessary section, but is only needed to
indicate that the branch circuits for a guest room/suite with permanent cooking
provisions need to have branch circuits installed in a similar manner to a
dwelling unit. This would include the small appliance branch circuits and the
bathroom branch circuit. The laundry branch circuit is included, but an
Exception #2 to 210.52(F) would allow the omission of the laundry receptacle
if no laundry facilities are contemplated.
Panel Meeting Action: Accept
Number Eligible to Vote: 12
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 12
Click to expand...

____________________________________________________________

This is from the 2008 draft

210.18 Guest Rooms and Guest Suites. Guest rooms and
guest suites that are provided with permanent provisions for
cooking shall have branch circuits installed to meet the
rules for dwelling units. [ROP 2–160]
Click to expand...
 
If they DO use AFCI breakers for the guest rooms, be careful at how they are grouped in the panels. We just went through an ordeal with that problem (see post:Several arc fault breakers in panels). These breakers produce heat and when they are grouped that tightly, and in the quantities that they were using (36 spaces AFCI in a 42 ckt. panel) the ambient temperature in the panel was over 140F.
Just a heads up, if you can use conventional breakers here, do.
 
Bob did notice the submitter ?

Report on Proposals A2007 ? Copyright, NFPA

2-160 Log #2734 NEC-P02 Final Action: Accept
(210.18)
__________________________________________________ __________
Submitter: Jim Pauley, Square D Company
 
submitter

submitter

M. D. said:
Bob did notice the submitter ?

Report on Proposals A2007 — Copyright, NFPA

2-160 Log #2734 NEC-P02 Final Action: Accept
(210.18)
__________________________________________________ __________
Submitter: Jim Pauley, Square D Company
Click to expand...


he's only interested in the safety of our children :)
 
The Technical Corelating Comittee overuled the revision to the definition of "dwelling unit". I e-mailed a few of the members and voiced my concerns over the lack of technical substantiation for teh change, and apparently they listened. :)
 
What about Article 100: Cooking Unit, Counter-Mounted. "A cooking appliance designed for mounting in or on a counter and consisting of one or more heating elements, internal wiring, and built-in or mountable controls."

Microwaves do not have a heating element. Does this allow a hotel room (Guest Room) to not be AFCI protected?
 
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