House Meter

[volt101]

With some new language in 210.25 (in the 2008 book) prohibiting common loads to be connected to equipment that supplies an individual dwelling unit or tenant space even applies to ?other than dwelling occupancies.?

My question is what section permits the "other than dwelling unit" (commercial on grade and apartments above) to get a set of service entrance conductors ran to its meter?

 

[wbalsam1]

210.25 applies only to branch circuits. Is your question about service conductors? :smile:

 

[volt101]

Forgive me- Sometimes I think people know what is going on in my head...Now follow me.

If I need to add a circuit, such as a fire alarm circuit, to what do I tie it in to? A panel.

What panel? The House Panel.

How does the house panel get there? From the service by means of SE cables.......

 

[iwire]

The house panel receives it supply from the same utility service drop or lateral but it gets it's own power company meter.

 

[wbalsam1]

Forgive me- Sometimes I think people know what is going on in my head...Now follow me.

If I need to add a circuit, such as a fire alarm circuit, to what do I tie it in to? A panel.

What panel? The House Panel.

How does the house panel get there? From the service by means of SE cables.......

Taking your example of a mixed-occupancy building from your 1st post, the smoke alarms required by the building code for each dwelling unit must receive thier supply from the panel for the dwelling. Those smoke alarms circuits are not permitted to extend into other dwelling units. The smoke detector(s) required in the common areas will be connected to a supply from the "house" meter.
The location of the house panel cannot be within the dwelling units since it contains branch circuits.
Typically in my area, the meters are all grouped together on the exterior of the building with disconnects contained adjacent or as a part (meter module) and remote panels fed with 4-wire are located where the occupants have ready access to their own OCPD's. :smile:

 

[volt101]

What code article permits the house meter to get a set of service entrance conductors? I am looking at 230.71 and 230.40 and its exceptions.

I just need someone to point out what it is that I am missing in the book.

 

[wbalsam1]

What code article permits the house meter to get a set of service entrance conductors? I am looking at 230.71 and 230.40 and its exceptions.

I just need someone to point out what it is that I am missing in the book.

230.40 exception # 1 gets changed just about every code cycle. Check out the 2008 wording.

 

[augie47]

230.40 exception # 1 gets changed just about every code cycle. Check out the 2008 wording.

and, more specifically, 230.40 Exception #4.

 

[volt102]

Volt101 = Volt102

230.40 exception # 1 gets changed just about every code cycle. Check out the 2008 wording.

230.40 Exception No. 1: A building with more than one occupancy shall be permitted to have one set of service-entrance conductors for each service, as defined in 230.2, run to each occupancy or group of occupancies.

This would hold true if the house loads were considered to be occupying the building. In my jurisdiction we use the term occupancy to define the number of units in such a building that are rented or leased, or otherwise in-use. We would not add one occupant count to a building that utilizes a house panel, that is a four unit would not change to a five unit just because someone slapped a house panel in the hallway....

If the term was intended to include the house loads as far as the NEC is concerned, there would be no need for exception #4......Which leads me to...

and, more specifically, 230.40 Exception #4.

230.40 Exception No. 4: A two-family dwelling or a multifamily dwelling shall be permitted to have one set of service-entrance conductors installed to supply the circuits covered in 210.25.

Only applies to two- and multi- family dwellings......This is an mixed-use occupancy building or simply put by the NEC- an "other"

 

[augie47]

Volt101 = Volt102

Only applies to two- and multi- family dwellings......This is an mixed-use occupancy building or simply put by the NEC- an "other"

I know this could become never-ending, but the fact that 210.25 did refer to "multi-occupancy buildings" and 210.25 is referenced in Exception 4....
maybe ?

 

[wbalsam1]

Volt102: so we agree that 210.25 prohibits branch circuits from extending from one occupancy to another and in the 08 NEC the wording includes multi-occupancy building and includes the words "tenant space".

Therefore if one takes a building of mixed use and applies Article 220 to calculate loads for common areas, such as hallways, corridors, stairways, etc., as prescribed in Table 220.12, it seems obvious that this would indicate the need for a feeder for these common areas.

In other words, the common area lighting and receptacle loads would not be permitted to originate within the tenant spaces or the dwelling units....so... a feeder (originating at the metering module) is born to meet these common area needs.

 

[volt102]

In other words, the common area lighting and receptacle loads would not be permitted to originate within the tenant spaces or the dwelling units....so... a feeder (originating at the metering module) is born to meet these common area needs.

That is assuming that you have module metering to begin with and that all conductors are wires....