How about this one !!!!!!

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Ok here`s the senario.New residential construction
in a really growing area.New inspectors to handle the work load.....I just took over a hornets nest of a sub division,previous area manager didn`t do his job very well.But he walked each inspection with this inspector and all were passed.So here I come along,Recieved a call from one of the supers that he was doing a walk through with homeowner and a/c start up man was there.I was told there was no electric run to a/c compressor.I got there and the first thing i see is a meter set on the house.lights are on...I check the permit board and final is signed off.I walk around the corner and sitting there is an a/c compressor with no whip attached to it.We set our disconnects on rough in.I look down and it is obvious that the pad had been moved to clear the disconnect,so I figured that it had been disconnected and moved,to my surprise all ko`s are sealed on the disc.This was unimaginable how did this home get a final without compressor hooked up.As it turned out when trimmed the a/c compressor was not installed,but it had been turned in for a final by the builder.As i said previous manager walked all inspections, he must have told inspector he`d take care of it and never did !!!!! This gets better,this is an inspector that is a stickler for minute details in the nec.he has tagged for radius bends in romex,more than 2 wires under a staple,bored holes that have only 1 3/16 clearance
and has been a real pain in the b__t.My question is simple,do I keep this as a hole card or just let it go.....BTW i have copies of the permit card with his sign off on it.Sorry for being long winded but this has gotten me off the scale....
What do you guys think.........

 

[caj1962]

Re: How about this one !!!!!!

In the great scheme of things, it would seem that your inspector made a mistake signing off on this at the contractors word that it would be fixed. This means he is human. He trusted the word of the contractor and got burned. If you push the issue and play your "ace in the whole" I believe that your inspector,"sticler for the the rules" will make your life miserable. If it were me and had a chance to mention it to the AHJ I would definatly lay all of the blame on the the guy who dropped the ball. The next time the inspector will probably not take his word that "he will take care of it" and give him a red tag and demand a reinspection.
Probably not what you wanted to here. Have a great day.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: How about this one !!!!!!

I often call violations on A/C installations when I do residential finals. The problem though, is that if the A/C isn't there for a final I can't require that it be there. Maybe that disconnect is for a future installation. This happens all the time with hot tubs. If the A/C isn't there for final, they should take out a new permit when it is installed, but I can't force someone into installing an A/C. This happens more times than you think.

 

[michael nye]

Re: How about this one !!!!!!

I've seen it before, the Electrician wires the disco, and the AC guy wires the whip. Then the sparky gets dinged for the incomplete work. If the AC was there when the finish was set the sparky would have ben able to perform his work.

 

[bphgravity]

Re: How about this one !!!!!!

I run into a similar problem quite often. In my area, most homes built before about 2001 had water heaters cord-and-plug connected. When these waters heaters go bad and need replacing, a plumber contractor does the work, and permits the job.

However, an electrician is need to perform the hardwiring. A separate permit is not needed, as the work can be performed under the plumbers permit.

The problem is that on several occasions, the scheduling is off and I get my work done before the water heater install is complete. When this happens, I either have to wait around for the work to get finished, come back when the plumber is done, or trust that the plumber can connect the whip to the water heater properly.

Its not that I dont feel other trades men are competent or not, I just rather perform my work to completion. I would not suggest to an A/C or plumber contractor that I would finish up the last finishing touches to their work either.

Coordination and good communication is the key!

 

[donnie]

Re: How about this one !!!!!!

As an inspector, the way I handle the question of the A/C compressor is this , If it is there when I do a final then it must be connected, but If it is not there when I do a final , then the feed must be terminated in a disconnect. Because there is no electrical code or building code that says that you must have A/C, but there is a building code requirement for having Heat.

 

[luke warmwater]

Re: How about this one !!!!!!

Allen, had a call last spring from a builder. He asked if we could have someone check-out the A/C at his house-it wasn't working. This was a new builder for us and it was his personal home that we did not wire.
The prior electrical contractor got a final sticker and there wasn't even a disconnect. As a matter of fact, it was dual zone so there was 2 A/C home runs stubbed outside hanging in the breeze.
P.S. both breakers were ON

 

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Re: How about this one !!!!!!

The thing is this,this is a heat pump system so... no compressor no heat,it got better today..
Same sub division same inspector.I back fed a house thru the dryer from t pole with 8/4 so cord
This was for a walk thru with the builder and h.o.
Builder had called for a final same day.I got a call from the shop inspector was furious and i was to see what was up.Got there and all lights were on coach lights, flourescents ,recessed cans
Here inspectors are required to check panel for contamination,so he opens the panel and grabs the buss bars to check for foriegn substance,how dumb is that he got blasted and was ranting on and on
told me that he didnt know power was on
So i disconnected the power and giggled to myself
he was so embarassed he signed the permit without going into the house.This is one for the books

 

[iwire]

Re: How about this one !!!!!!

Originally posted by a.wayne3@verizon.net:
I back fed a house thru the dryer from t pole with 8/4 so cord

So i disconnected the power and giggled to myself
he was so embarassed he signed the permit without going into the house.This is one for the books

Yes, it is hard to believe he did not notice the lights on, but IMO you would still be at fault here.

 

[bphgravity]

Re: How about this one !!!!!!

I agree with Bob! I think it is a little strange that you find humor in someone else being nearly electrocuted.

I have had my problems with inspectors, but I certainly wouldnt want to see any of the get hurt just trying to do their job, and especially from my unsafe action.

I used to laugh at T.V. shows and jokes about shock or electrocution, but now I cringe at the thought and think it really isnt something to make light of.

Im sorry to sound so serious, but I think this is a serious issue. I know most of on this forum are good electricians with good intentions.

My hope is that no one else sees any humor in this incident, and that your "giggle" was a sigh of relief and really your own embarassment.

 

[roger]

Re: How about this one !!!!!!

If this happened in the city we primarily work in, anyone doing this would be sitting in front of the board with some serious explaining and serious disciplinary consequences. the discipline could even involve your license be it city jcard or state level competency. Of course here we have a one to one license / apprentice ratio, so there can not be an ignorance argument.

In otherwords, a license of journeyman minimum must be on the job when any electrical work is being done, and if an unsafe situation is left, someone in the company with a license will be accountable.

With all that said, I have certainly dealt with SO CALLED inspectors that you would love to slap.

These are not true inspectors, these are the ones with a power trip that think they can make their own code, or they can't cite why they tagged an installation, and you dare not ask them to, unless your ready to suffer the retaliation :roll:


Roger

[ June 20, 2003, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: roger ]

 

[bennie]

Re: How about this one !!!!!!

Here in Oregon, all power must be on prior to a final inspection. The service should be energized by normal connection.

Using electricity for a joke, or retalitation, will quickly teach a person the difference in a three gang and a chain gang.

 

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Re: How about this one !!!!!!

There was no intent to hurt !!!! Tell me how is this unsafe ??? 50 amp t pole plug so cord and a dryer plug.It is gfci protected ..............Here we get our final and then a meter set,after the county releases the house to the poco.Maybe my post was in bad taste
but this is done state wide....It would be different if the house was back fed thru the meter
but when there is a 8/4 so cord that is in sight of the panel coming from the t pole and going to the laundry room it doesn`t take a genius to figure it out........But when there are 3 4 ft flour. fixtures lit right above your head it is quite obvious that the power is on,in my haste i forgot to mention that in order to open the panel he had to remove a sign (ENERGIZED ELECTRICAL EQUIPTMENT)

 

[bill addiss]

Re: How about this one !!!!!!

Why did he reach in there, what was he trying to check for?

Bill

 

[bennie]

Re: How about this one !!!!!!

Bill makes a good point. No experienced electrician will touch a bus bar unless they plan to work on it.
Then they will make sure it is off and will remain in that state.

I have mental alarms go off, even when I am changing a bolted bus breaker on a panel I have turned off myself. I think any wireman who has been zapped, feels the same thing. This Inspector should not be repeating the move.

 

[rickcham]

Re: How about this one !!!!!!

A.Wayne: From reading your post the inspector needs to go back to school, As a Master Electrician and certified high voltage splicer who does both interior and exterior wiring my NUMBER ONE RULE is I always practice is always checks for voltage!!!!
I am teaching my son the trade and I do not know how many times I have told him to check get the DMM and verify the power is off. He does it with out me telling him but I still repeat the words to engrave the importance of this simple check. Even if he cut the lines or threw the breaker himself.
The inspector hopefully will learn to read a sign ands carry a good meter to check before he reaches into a panel or any other equipment.
Bad practice on his part!!

 

[roger]

Re: How about this one !!!!!!

Rick, I think your missing the point here.

Let's look at Allens post before the back tracking took place.

told me that he didnt know power was on
So i disconnected the power and giggledto myself

Allen seems to be saying that even though the inspector may have been preocupied that day, (who knows maybe a death in the family or whatever) the fact someone was shocked is amusing.

I too am a master electrician and qualified to work MV and I have spent time in whirl pool therapy due to an electrical arc blast burns, my fault.

I "could" tell you that it was a Federal Pacific 480 v switchboard that was an old piece of junk, and the A phase fell into the B phase with no help from me, so the injuries I recieved was not my fault.

The truth is it happened just like that, but, I had dropped my guard that day and instead of having the proper PPE on, I was standing there bare naked as far as PPE was concerned, just looking at the busses getting a game plan of what I was going to do.

Now, does this mean I need to go back to school as you say?

Remember I said "back tracking" why didn't Allen mention this

i forgot to mention that in order to open the panel he had to remove a sign (ENERGIZED ELECTRICAL EQUIPTMENT)

up front?

Sorry, but I think this attitude is more of a reason to go back to school.

Roger

[ June 21, 2003, 07:14 PM: Message edited by: roger ]

 

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Re: How about this one !!!!!!

To answer the question....What was he reaching in there for??? Here the inspectors on a final are required to check all connections and the panel busses for contamination Paint,Dry wall mud,Texture etc.... I know it was wrong to get a kick out of him getting zapped,sorry but this guy is one of those mightier than thou guys a know it all.Just the thought of someone doing this was to much here the entire house was lit opening the panel was the last thing he did.By the way it was really dark that day thunderstorms in the area,with the garage lit up it was beyond me why he did this.....If I offended anyone my apoligies but this was to much......

 

[roger]

Re: How about this one !!!!!!

Allen, I appologize. I know you wouldn't find true enjoyment in someone being shocked if injury occured. I did want to make the point that at any given time reguardless of our expertise, we make mistakes, and some can be unforgiving.

Roger

[ June 22, 2003, 08:42 AM: Message edited by: roger ]

 

[bennie]

Re: How about this one !!!!!!

A.Wayne: Is there another inspection after the power is turned on?