How can this be legal?

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Russs57

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Location
Miami, Florida, USA
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Maintenance Engineer
My workplace wants to replace receptacle and switch cover plates in a Psych ward. They are concerned the patients might bend the nylon cover plates enough to gain access to electrocute themselves. Also some concern about them breaking the plate off and using it as a weapon.

So today I'm looking at something the boss has gotten as a sample from a salesman. From the enclosed literature it seems designed for just this type of use.

But get this. They want you to remove receptacle from box, fasten it to cover plate with two 8-32 tamper resistant screws and nyloc nuts. Then they want you to tap-con the oversize plate to the wall. This means neither the receptacle nor cover plate will be attached to junction box/mud ring in any manner.

Now I'm not a code guy but it seems to me either the receptacle, or cover, has to be screwed to the J-box.....right? Appreciate a code reference that I can wave under their nose because I'm thinking I'm not willing to do this.

BTW, walls are drywall and you know there isn’t going to be any backing to screw into.
 
I don't know anything about this type of installation, but, it would seem to me that this is not helping the concern.

In my mind, if this is an actual concern, You'd need to minimize the access of any type of electrical outlet all together.

JAP>
 
Put GFCI breakers in. That won't totally prevent shocks, but will sure help.

Perhaps stainless steel plates and replace the screw with a tamper-resistant one.
 
You forgot to read the fine print: "Must remove a four foot square of drywall around the box and replace with 3/4" plywood so the plate has something to attach to."
 
Russs57 said:
Now I'm not a code guy but it seems to me either the receptacle, or cover, has to be screwed to the J-box.....right? Appreciate a code reference that I can wave under their nose because I'm thinking I'm not willing to do this.
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Why not remove all the receptacles from the non-supervised areas, kill the circuits, and blank off the boxes with tamper resistant plate screws.

Receptacles are not required in in psychiatric sleeping rooms, see the exceptions to 517.18(A) and (B).

Roger
 
I work in healthcare bldgs built in the 80's with no egc's, where that one screw on the yoke w/ that metal clip or wire is the only ground connection for the devices.
But even if the healthcare bldg is new wouldn't you loose the grounding redundancy if that one screw wasn't attached to the wallcase/mudring?
 
roger said:
Why not remove all the receptacles from the non-supervised areas, kill the circuits, and blank off the boxes with tamper resistant plate screws.

Receptacles are not required in in psychiatric sleeping rooms, see the exceptions to 517.18(A) and (B).

Roger
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Bingo. The other, far greater danger is that the patients *could* use the receptacles as makeshift lighters, which no cover plate or tamper-resistant screws or receptacles will prevent. 1 shocked or electrocuted patient is very unfortunate, 30 dead patients from a arson related fire would be a tragedy.

If you are going to keep the receptacles and have them powered, typically an unbreakable nylon plate would be used. Metal and hard plastic can be used to make weapons. I have seen those giant cover plates used but they were all attached to concrete block with tamper-proof Torx fasteners
 
sameguy said:
So what's wrong with straight jackets or mitts?
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Those are so 1950s... They use Seroquel now... Bloodless brain surgery.

You can't keep people in mechanical restraints forever. Psychiatric rooms usually go to Great Lengths to prevent people from hurting themselves... Handrails in the bathroom for handicapped people will typically have steel plate welded so there is no way to tie a bed sheet around the rail and hang yourself.

If a receptacle is required for something like a CPAP machine, I've no idea how this would be handled other than the place a psych patient on suicide watch.

There should be job spec on this, all of this is way way outside of the NEC

As to the question can this be legal?, As long as the cover plate is listed installed per manufacture spec I do not see a problem.

On a personal note, if I were miserable and psychotic enough to try to electrocute myself with 120 volts I would probably yank a cord out of a lamp or electric bed rather than trying to bend a nylon cover plate on a receptacle. Or stick unfolded paper clips through the shutters defeating the TR. yes, very morbid, however when designing such things, you have to think way outside the box.
 
roger said:
Why not remove all the receptacles from the non-supervised areas, kill the circuits, and blank off the boxes with tamper resistant plate screws.

Receptacles are not required in in psychiatric sleeping rooms, see the exceptions to 517.18(A) and (B).

Roger
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With the ripping the covers off and using them as a weapon part, I would say, patch the boxes. I mean ripping off a nylon cover and using it as a weapon means they can do just about anything.
 
Strathead said:
With the ripping the covers off and using them as a weapon part, I would say, patch the boxes. I mean ripping off a nylon cover and using it as a weapon means they can do just about anything.
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You could do that but heck, we used metallic blank covers so if they did get by the tamper resistant screws they had something they could really use.

Roger
 
jumper said:
If they got by the screws then whatever they used to it was prolly capable of being used as a weapon already.
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When I first heard of this type of issue, several decades ago, the cover plate was most often used to injure themselves not others. They also asked me what was available, this was before AFCIs, to prevent the 'residents' from using a regular pencil to light a cigarette from a receptacle (and no they were not using a paper clip as a 'heating element').

I suggested removing the outlets and was told that state law required them to have access to electricity.
 
jim dungar said:
When I first heard of this type of issue, several decades ago, the cover plate was most often used to injure themselves not others. They also asked me what was available, this was before AFCIs, to prevent the 'residents' from using a regular pencil to light a cigarette from a receptacle (and no they were not using a paper clip as a 'heating element').

I suggested removing the outlets and was told that state law required them to have access to electricity.
Click to expand...

Curious, did you get to actually read the amendment or was it verbal only?
 
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