How did they miss that?

[G0049]

I really didn't think that the black-red combination would be feeding the water heater. I'd have guessed a clothes dryer or a wall oven before I guessed a water heater.

It looks like the NM entering the box directly to the right of the 50, is 10/3 with NO egc. So, if that's the hwh feed, maybe they used red/black as phase conductors and used the white as an egc.

 

[KentAT]

An intermittent duty electric arc welder can have that setup as well.

 

[KentAT]

An intermittent duty electric arc welder can have that setup as well.

...the 50A breaker with #10, I mean...

 

[cowboyjwc]

I gotta ask about the lower termination on the top breaker. To my old eyes, it looks like the aluminum is completely severed from the terminal. It could be a shadow, or a small piece of black tape, but I doubt it.

My guess it's more like some strands were cut off.

Thank you. I thought I saw the same thing and even thought that was the question.

 

[peter d]

You know, I've been thinking, the #10 could on that 50 amp breaker could very well be going to an AC condensing unit.

 

[Nick]

I gotta ask about the lower termination on the top breaker. To my old eyes, it looks like the aluminum is completely severed from the terminal. It could be a shadow, or a small piece of black tape, but I doubt it.

My guess it's more like some strands were cut off.

Thank you. I thought I saw the same thing and even thought that was the question.

I thought the same thing. But if you look really close the conductor is just disappearing behind a notch in the breaker case. It is in fact, intact.

 

[cowboyjwc]

At my age looking real close is where I have the problem. I see far away just fine.:grin:

 

[RUWired]

For an AC condenser unit. In fact, #10 on a 50 amp breaker might be very common for that application.

Article 440.22 allows it to go up to 225% which could put it up to needing a 65 amp breaker.
Rick

 

[BMacky]

How would an air conditioner condenser be an exception to wire sizing rules?

 

[ultramegabob]

How would an air conditioner condenser be an exception to wire sizing rules?

and example would be if the plate on the unit says min circuit ampacity 30 amps and max size overcurrent protection 50 amps, you can run 10 gauge wire and land it on a 50 amp breaker because you are protecting the wire with the internal motor staters heaters (over current protection), the 50 amp breaker is for the current inrush on motor start up.

 

[Minuteman]

How would an air conditioner condenser be an exception to wire sizing rules?

240.4 (D) Small Conductors

(D)(1)-(7) Lists the amperages of conductors 18 Awg through 10 Awg. The exception for those amperages is found in 240.4 (E) or (G). Tap conductors being found in (E) and Specific Conductor Applications are found in (G). The first item listed in Table 240.4 (G) is Air Conditioners.

 

[cschmid]

why are most of the strands missing on that conductor..

 

[iwire]

IMO there are no strands missing.

 

[cschmid]

In the picture I see I only see 1 strand of the conductor under the lug..


edited to add..I can clearly see the edge of the lug and it is only one strand..so no matter the load that is wrong..

 

[ultramegabob]

In the picture I see I only see 1 strand of the conductor under the lug..


edited to add..I can clearly see the edge of the lug and it is only one strand..so no matter the load that is wrong..

I think its an optical illusion, due to camera angle and shadow and the shape of the breaker.

 

[iwire]

In the picture I see I only see 1 strand of the conductor under the lug..


edited to add..I can clearly see the edge of the lug and it is only one strand..so no matter the load that is wrong..

Do you have 'zoom' on your computer?

I blew the picture up 400% and at that size you can see there is plastic from the breaker in front of the conductors. Even at normal size you can see the same plastic bump on the upper terminal.

There is more then one strand under the lug.

 

[cschmid]

ok saved pic blew it up and looked at it I will stand partially corrected..I measure the distance from edge of block to lug edge on both lugs just to verify the lug edge and I do see 2 strands under the lug and it does look like some type of black shading..Yet I was unable to get clear enough picture of it to say more than 2 wires exsist under the lug..