How do I treat retrofit? new or addition?

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julesm

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Existing small medical building: (E)400A-1P service, two (E) panels to remain, two (N) panels to be added, HVAC remains, new and existing lighting and receptacles to be circuited to the new panels.
Do I treat this as a new installation or retrofit for calcs and code issues? This is a new kind of job for me...
Thanks!
 
Assuming that the (E) in your post is for existing...I would treat it as a retrofit. However, if they are expanding in to a new suite, then I would treat it as new.

Edit to add: I would also contact the AHJ since they might have an interpretation of "retrofit" and "new work". Sometimes the difference is $$
 
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while normally I would agree with Ken, I am more inclined to call this new. If you need to add two new panels to handle the additional work then I assume that it is fairly extensive. I would also want a total load calc for the main service.

Now from experiance I can tell you that you will probably be alright.

What I do agree with Ken about is to contact your local AHJ.
 
I checked with the AHJ and we are calling this a tenant improvement. yes, it's all about the money! I am showing all the new & existing stuff plus available fault current, etc, etc. It's more about getting permit than concerns about capacity and loading. thanks for the responses. As always.:smile:
 
julesm said:
I checked with the AHJ and we are calling this a tenant improvement. yes, it's all about the money! I am showing all the new & existing stuff plus available fault current, etc, etc. It's more about getting permit than concerns about capacity and loading. thanks for the responses. As always.:smile:
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, let me revise my post a little. We would also call it a TI. We use this term for any work being done in an existing building. We only have a few terms that we are concerned with, new, remodel, addition.

Really it doesn't matter to much what you call it as the work is basically the same. The only real reason is so that we have a discription on the permit.

And you're welcome as always.:smile:
 
"It's more about getting permit than concerns about capacity and loading. thanks for the responses."

Here in NJ to 'get a permit'...you have to provide whatever reasonable documentation that the AHJ requests. Depending on the scope of the job....Architect plans, or Engineer plans for comm work. Rehab Code of 5:23 may or may not kick in.

Based on your post...I would require a load calc since you are adding new panels and equipment.....from a Lic. EE/PE/Architect. Nothing personal....it's the code.
 
KK:
"TI" is not defined within the UCC to my knowledge. There are terms defined regarding scope of work relative to all trades.

(TI) is tenant improvement...correct. We refer to it as 'tenant fit-up' in our office, although that is not a UCC term either.

The second sentence in my above post basically spells out what is required for permit application for comm work. Lic EC and Master Plumbers are allowed to prepare info on specific class structures and occupancies, based on sq ft and classifications. Again...it's what the AHJ reasonably requests. WE don't ask for Architect plans for a panel change (minor work)
 
John- Thanks. I guess its one of those terms that can mean either/or. I know that the electrical company I worked for as well as my former fire department used the terms interchangably (sp?).

Perhaps ICBO should properly define it so we don't get them confused :)
 
Thanks for the discussion. It is always useful for me to remember that there is not often one way, one interpretation, one right answer to any situation. I was originally trying to figure out if I needed to use NEC 220-35 to document the existing vs new loads. Which I realize I don't need here. In this job, the only reused eqpt are the service entrance, two distribution feeders and panels, and HVAC. So I am showing the existing to remain in lighter type, and the new in bold, and load calculations for the whole facility.
 
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