How do you find good employees?

[AC\DC]

What about putting in the time to train an apprentice, maybe a 2-3 year Individual for quicker turn around. I don’t have any employees yet, but the other guys in my town do. They have to pay more than union wages to keep them from what I hear.

 

[Coppersmith]

why would someone who already has a job and is a very good electrician and employee risk all that to work for you? Why? They wouldn't. There's mutual scrutinizing going on.

That's a good question. Mine is a small company so they are definitely taking a risk. If work dries up, I would have to lay them off. But I think I have a lot to offer. Forty paid hours per week regardless of how many hours (40 or less) that you work; Union wages, health care, vacation pay and other benefits; flexible hours; an opportunity to work on a service truck which some people are interested in doing; and a great employer who is kind to his employees.

 

[Coppersmith]

What about putting in the time to train an apprentice, maybe a 2-3 year Individual for quicker turn around. I don’t have any employees yet, but the other guys in my town do. They have to pay more than union wages to keep them from what I hear.

The union does not allow apprentices to work alone because they are supposed to in training by a j-man. I have contemplated hiring an apprentice to work with me and do all the tiring stuff like climbing through attics, but then I'm limiting my income because I can only have one truck operating.

Additionally, it requires a lot of experience to troubleshoot problems especially in a residential situation where most wiring is hidden behind wall finishes, between floors, or in inaccessible roof areas. Experience is also needed when planning out how to accomplish work/route wiring in a cost efficient way. An inexperienced apprentice or even a green j-man would not work out well.

I've thought about creating a training program and training the people I need, but to be cost effective, I would need to be a bigger company with a lot more money coming in to support such an effort. I have this whole scenario in my head where I buy a warehouse that I split into offices, material storage, vehicle stocking, and staff training areas (including a faux attic space to practice climbing through without falling through the drywall).

 

[James L]

... even a green j-man would not work out well.

I've always thought "green journeyman" is an oxymoron

 

[Coppersmith]

I've always thought "green journeyman" is an oxymoron

When I first became a j-man, several electricians called me a green j-man because I was inexperienced at being a j-man. And please don't call me an ox moron.

 

[AC\DC]

The union does not allow apprentices to work alone because they are supposed to in training by a j-man. I

same for non union around here. I think 4 years can work by themselves. I was meaning maybe get a 2-3 year and train them for another year or two then you can set them free.

 

[James L]

same for non union around here. I think 4 years can work by themselves. I was meaning maybe get a 2-3 year and train them for another year or two then you can set them free.

Ideally, someone who had at least a year of new construction wiring, then at least a year of remodel wiring.

If he learned right, he could be set free within a year, for sure

 

[James L]

When I first became a j-man, several electricians called me a green j-man because I was inexperienced at being a j-man. And please don't call me an ox moron.

When I had about a year-and-a-half experience, my boss hired a journeyman who came from somewhere in Florida. I swear, he was worse than any helper that we had.

He was notorious for wiring crazy 3-way and 4-way switch configurations, then no idea how to make them up. Didn't know how to install a smoke detector, didn't know what to do with a multiwire branch circuit in the panel.... you talk about green. I have no idea how he got his journeyman card. Probably found it in a box of Cracker Jacks.

I told him that he needed to go apologize to everybody he ever worked for.

 

[ramsy]

..I have never had a keeper. Some guys get laid off within the week. The last one lasted two months. Among his highlights are he crashed his service truck into mine, and I had to go back and fix six jobs he did.

1) Can they drive POV on their own commercial-vehicle policy, if compensated?

2) Can shop rockets have a helper, to serve as both car-pool dummy and double billing for working backwards?

3) Can employees walk off job if client refuses permit, inspection, or if they find another trade-license is required?

 

[Mdsnow22]

I have no idea. Back when I looked for (non-electrical) jobs, I looked in the want ads, or stopped by stores to ask to fill out aps. After college, I sent out resumés. I joined the union so I've never had to go looking for an electrical job other than showing up at the hall for a job call. How do good electricians look for jobs? Where do I find them?

I need service truck electricians. Those are the unicorns of the electrical trade. They have to be smart electrically, customer centric, look good and smell good, have a good, safe driving record, be efficient, manage time well, and good with paperwork. I'm willing to pay what they are worth. I just can't find them. Unfortunately, the union can't supply these people. They just don't have them. I can hire outside the union and bring them in.

It seems to be a common problem. I live in Florida and we are super busy here and can’t find anyone that wants to work let alone anyone whom is good. I am encouraging my son to get into the trade because he is very meticulous like myself. I figure if you can’t find a good service guy then create one. I can’t trust anyone to stick around long enough to learn and then stay here instead of running off for more money. It is a talent to be good and becoming a lost art. I have been in this trade for over 20 years and only met 2 guys that even cared enough to be good at what they did. It seems to be a rare breed. Craftsmanship seems like a thing of the past. I have always enjoyed doing what I do because at the end you look at it and can say that looks good! Plus folks talk about it and praise it. The surprise on their face was worth it as well. Sorry to get on a rant here. If anyone does figure out where to find a guy or is looking in the central Florida area please let me know. Thanks. Stay safe!!!

 

[Fred B]

It seems to be a common problem. I live in Florida and we are super busy here and can’t find anyone that wants to work let alone anyone whom is good. I am encouraging my son to get into the trade because he is very meticulous like myself. I figure if you can’t find a good service guy then create one. I can’t trust anyone to stick around long enough to learn and then stay here instead of running off for more money. It is a talent to be good and becoming a lost art. I have been in this trade for over 20 years and only met 2 guys that even cared enough to be good at what they did. It seems to be a rare breed. Craftsmanship seems like a thing of the past. I have always enjoyed doing what I do because at the end you look at it and can say that looks good! Plus folks talk about it and praise it. The surprise on their face was worth it as well. Sorry to get on a rant here. If anyone does figure out where to find a guy or is looking in the central Florida area please let me know. Thanks. Stay safe!!!

It's not just Florida, same here. I think schools and society has done a disservice to young people to make them feel that they are entitled, no ethics when it comes to workmanship let alone becoming a craftsman at something. (They're too good to dig a ditch, pull cable, climb through the hot attic, like we've all had to do it to get to this point in our careers. And some still doing because of what @Mdsnow22 said.)

 

[hillbilly1]

It's not just Florida, same here. I think schools and society has done a disservice to young people to make them feel that they are entitled, no ethics when it comes to workmanship let alone becoming a craftsman at something. (They're too good to dig a ditch, pull cable, climb through the hot attic, like we've all had to do it to get to this point in our careers. And some still doing because of what @Mdsnow22 said.)

Many years ago the company hired this kid as my helper, Low rider truck, loud stereo etc. Seem to be a good kid, but wasn’t much into hard work. First day we dug a hole to find a broken pylon sign feed, he asked “do you have to dig a lot to be an electrician?” I told him it was part of it. Next day we ran a new conduit up the pylon sign to tie it in. He asked “do you have to get up in high places to be an electrician? “ I told him that’s part of it too. The next day he called in quitting saying he wasn’t cut out to be an electrician! LOL!

 

[James L]

It seems to be a common problem. I live in Florida and we are super busy here and can’t find anyone that wants to work let alone anyone whom is good. I am encouraging my son to get into the trade because he is very meticulous like myself. I figure if you can’t find a good service guy then create one. I can’t trust anyone to stick around long enough to learn and then stay here instead of running off for more money. It is a talent to be good and becoming a lost art. I have been in this trade for over 20 years and only met 2 guys that even cared enough to be good at what they did. It seems to be a rare breed. Craftsmanship seems like a thing of the past. I have always enjoyed doing what I do because at the end you look at it and can say that looks good! Plus folks talk about it and praise it. The surprise on their face was worth it as well. Sorry to get on a rant here. If anyone does figure out where to find a guy or is looking in the central Florida area please let me know. Thanks. Stay safe!!!

If you replace Florida with Kansas City, that could have been written by me. One exception, though....
my son wants to be a rap artist

 

[petersonra]

That's a good question. Mine is a small company so they are definitely taking a risk. If work dries up, I would have to lay them off. But I think I have a lot to offer. Forty paid hours per week regardless of how many hours (40 or less) that you work; Union wages, health care, vacation pay and other benefits; flexible hours; an opportunity to work on a service truck which some people are interested in doing; and a great employer who is kind to his employees.

People keep writing in their posts about union wages like that some great benefit. If you cannot get the person you want to work for you by paying them union wages you will need to pay them more. That's the way the free market works. You may also think that you're a great guy to work for but it turns out that you're not. It doesn't take a lot particularly in a smaller town for an employer like an electrical contractor to get a bad rep for the way they treat their employees. Sometimes it is fair sometimes not.

There was a fairly good size company here in town a few years ago that had a bad habit of hiring engineers working them to death for a six months or a year and then laying them off. It got to the point where everybody in town knew what was going to happen if you went to work for them and pretty soon no one would work for them and they had to import people from out of town just to find employees.

If you want to get the right guy for a specific job, your view on who that perfect guy is may have to shift a bit. I'm not saying hire someone who is incompetent, lazy or ill-mannered, but sometimes employers look at potential employees in ways that exclude people that would maybe make a good employee down the road. My personal opinion is your best bet is to find someone who is kind of a loner and doesn't really like working with other people and would rather be out on his own doing his own thing. Not someone who is antisocial necessarily, but someone who can be out by themselves without being scared of being out there on a limb by themselves, which is pretty terrifying sometimes. I can say that I've been out on a limb many times by myself with no support and is a very disconcerting thing.

 

[blueheels2]

People keep writing in their posts about union wages like that some great benefit. If you cannot get the person you want to work for you by paying them union wages you will need to pay them more. That's the way the free market works. You may also think that you're a great guy to work for but it turns out that you're not. It doesn't take a lot particularly in a smaller town for an employer like an electrical contractor to get a bad rep for the way they treat their employees. Sometimes it is fair sometimes not.

There was a fairly good size company here in town a few years ago that had a bad habit of hiring engineers working them to death for a six months or a year and then laying them off. It got to the point where everybody in town knew what was going to happen if you went to work for them and pretty soon no one would work for them and they had to import people from out of town just to find employees.

If you want to get the right guy for a specific job, your view on who that perfect guy is may have to shift a bit. I'm not saying hire someone who is incompetent, lazy or ill-mannered, but sometimes employers look at potential employees in ways that exclude people that would maybe make a good employee down the road. My personal opinion is your best bet is to find someone who is kind of a loner and doesn't really like working with other people and would rather be out on his own doing his own thing. Not someone who is antisocial necessarily, but someone who can be out by themselves without being scared of being out there on a limb by themselves, which is pretty terrifying sometimes. I can say that I've been out on a limb many times by myself with no support and is a very disconcerting thing.

That’s how I feel a lot as a business owner. Thank God for this site and ET. No

 

[Greg1707]

Would the nature of this thread be different if the question were simply, "where can I find employees?"
Years ago the classified section of the newspaper listed HELP WANTED. Where do employers and employees meet up these days?

 

[James L]

as good as it gets for the service work we do, except the paper work...

That was always my biggest downfall, and even continued after I started working for myself. I did jobs I never got paid on because I wouldn't take the time to do paperwork. And time just passed me by.

In fact, I did some off-and-on freelance work for a contractor from November until 2 weeks ago. I never have turned in my paperwork to get paid. He mentioned it to me last week. Maybe I'll do it this week

For my own work, it became much easier by using an invoicing app.

 

[MGest]

This is true. And as of November, I'm required to pay all people who work on their own in a truck the foreman rate which is 10% more than the j-man rate. They get health care, vacation pay, and pension contributions too.

Paying them good is no guarantee of quality however. Usually new guys are on their best behavior for a little while before their true nature comes out. I have never had a keeper. Some guys get laid off within the week. The last one lasted two months. Among his highlights are he crashed his service truck into mine, and I had to go back and fix six jobs he did.

-----
Are their some jobs websites that electricians use now?

You're right. Paying good money is no guarantee. I'm having a similar issue with recruiting now as well. Especially since who would want to work if they're getting paid more by the government to sit at home and claim "Covid" ?

One possibility which came up when talking with the company president was to start an In-house apprenticeship. Granted it costs money and takes time, but the long term benefits are that you have someone who you have personally trained, knows the company and methodology, and you can weed him out earlier on if he doesn't meet your standards of professionalism and quality work.

 

[ptonsparky]

Until recently, I had two that were worth keeping and I managed, until Covid19. I'm sure there were others, some own their own business now.

 

[Coppersmith]

One possibility which came up when talking with the company president was to start an In-house apprenticeship. Granted it costs money and takes time, but the long term benefits are that you have someone who you have personally trained, knows the company and methodology, and you can weed him out earlier on if he doesn't meet your standards of professionalism and quality work.

I'm not sure of your definition of apprenticeship. Do you mean some limited in-house training that runs a few weeks? Electrical apprenticeships, both union and non-union, are multi-years long affairs. I don't suspect any one company can afford to take on that expense by themselves. All the apprenticeships I know of are run by groups of contractors pooling their money.

A better plan in my opinion would be to hire electricians just topping out of apprenticeship school. You can run them through a few weeks or months of company training to teach them your methods and fill-in training they didn't receive. (My trainees would be required to run an attic obstacle course so I can be sure they won't damage ceilings and won't fall through and kill themselves.)