How do you handle bidding jobs you don't want?

[boboelectric]

Just say You can't deliver this job,and keep me in mind.

 

[zog]

Just say You can't deliver this job,and keep me in mind.

Yep, the work I do is specialized so I turn down many jobs every day. But I always offer a referal on who can do it or where they can get it. Had a request yesterday for about $50k worth of equipment that is just not the stuff I deal with (Too small) so I told her where she could buy it. She said "I am suprised you offered that info, many people would use thier source to make a mark-up", told her I don't deal with that equipment and am not an expert with it either so nothing for me to "Earn".

Got an email from her boss last night, setting me up as the prefered vendor at all 14 plants. Honestly pays, maybe not today, but ten fold down the line.

 

[sparky=t]

we all get solic itations here thru isqft, blue book ect, they are whoring these jobs out and unless you have done a ton of work for them I would not sweat it, and if you have he will probually come back and ask if you can do it for the low price or beat it, just tell them you want to pass on this one!

 

[fridaymean]

collusion [kəˈluːʒən]
n
1. secret agreement for a fraudulent purpose; connivance; conspiracy

If a electrical contractor sends me a proposal for the work, then I mark it up and send it out, as if he were a sub, it is not collusion, it is not fraud, and it most certainly is not a conspiracy.

 

[ishium 80439]

Thanks for all of the replies. I kind of used a hybrid approach. I gave the GC a number that I pulled together pretty quickly but think is in the right neighborhood and let him know that if they get this job I will have to bow out.

 

[roger]

If a electrical contractor sends me a proposal for the work, then I mark it up and send it out, as if he were a sub, it is not collusion, it is not fraud, and it most certainly is not a conspiracy.

I am not making a judgement but I suggest taking a look at "Complimentary Bidding" in this article as well as this one

Roger

 

[fridaymean]

I am not making a judgement but I suggest taking a look at "Complimentary Bidding" in this article as well as this one

Roger

Interesting reads. I will bring them up to the powers that be.

 

[short circuit faulted]

Imho

Imho

I will agree two wrongs don't make a right,unfortunately due to technolgy advances (Fax, Computers Cellular, wireless connecttions, Crackberry Phones, texting, tweeting). People seem to think a two week estimate can be done in three days. (Either lack of planning on thier part or a desire to obtain twelve or more EC bids on a 300K job.) I figure when I have the time to put together a competive bid, one of three things happens not neccessarily in this order A. I got the job. B. I lost the job C. I got shopped by GC. For those unfamilar with the term, it is when a GC takes your price you have worked two days or two weeks to put together and feeds your number to his "buddy", saying here is EC1's number can you get under it by X percent. This guy has not even see the plans but he knows the reputation of EC1 and he says sure. Going back to the colusion concerns, I am feeding the GC a number with or without the adjustment factor from another EC. I am giving GC what he asked for another number unfortunately in today's market that equates to tossing in # 17 EC bid.
I don't see it disrupting or "rigging" the bid on the other hand to be shopped by the GC is to have money stolen from my company. I am not attempting to justify only to expain that I do not see giving a high OR an complementary quotation as being anything close to the conspiracy of "Bid Shopping".

Steve

 

[jmellc]

I try to be straight with everyone. I get lots of ITB's from Blue Book. Lots of them are too far away, too large for me at this time, etc. I click the option of "Not Interested, Keep Me on Your List" for most of them.

If I can't take the job, there's no sense in bidding it. Why waste my time and their's too?

If I am asked to bid on something I really dread but would still take, that's where I would bid very high. Max markup, figure every contingency known to man and then some. A former boss use to do that and sometimes got the job. Cursed the job while doing it, but walked away with a nice profit.

Don't get started with comparing bids & stuff. I worked for 2 large co's that were convicted of bid rigging. They probably started with smaller stuff like that.

 

[Ohmy]

Just say no.....?

 

[gadfly56]

Depends

Depends

If it's a current customer, the boss' feeling is there's no job we don't want, give 'em a fair price and we'll work out schedule and manpower issues later. Unless it's something we just can't handle (wrong skill sets), in which case we'll recommend someone if we can.

If it's a local EC or GC and they're asking us to bid alarm work and the bid due date is too tight and there isn't enough info we'll explain the issues and politely decline, please keep us in mind next time. If they come back and say they have to have a number, we'll insist on using their takoffs, ballpark the panel and device install, add exclusions from here to eternity and boost the price by [insert percentage here] to cover ourselves.

Small commercial or residential and we don't want it, bid high enough that they'll go elswhere but not so high they're sure your blowing them off. After all, someday they may have a job you do want! But don't spend a lot of time on the quote.

 

[haskindm]

If you were only given a couple of days to bid the job, there is probably already some skulduggery going on! The GC already has a price from the electrician with whom he plans to work. Either he thinks that electrician's price is too high, or he is hoping that by getting someone to bid it quickly, they will make a mistake and come in much lower - they don't care if it puts you out of business. The other thing that happens way too often, is that the bid has already opened and the GC has already been awarded the job. Now if he can find someone to do the electrical cheaper than what he bid, it is money in his pocket. I have actually had GC's tell me, I got a quote from X for $X, how much less can you do it for?

 

[satcom]

When the word bid is used are we talking about the same thing, a sealed bid with a formal bid process, or a GC fishing for a price?

 

[fridaymean]

When the word bid is used are we talking about the same thing, a sealed bid with a formal bid process, or a GC fishing for a price?

Most of the time, A GC price shopping.

 

[petersonra]

I am amazed that more GCs don't give up on the bidding process altogether and just negotiate a price with their subs that everyone can live with.

A lot of companies have headed that way and it's been pretty successful for them.

I know it's tough for government contracts, but normal people would do well to just skip the bidding process altogether most of the time.

 

[goosepolish]

bid a job you do not want

bid a job you do not want

You can handle it a few ways. Consider asking another EC you have a relationship with to comp you their number, then bump it up a few points (5-10%). This will save face plus give you a respectible placement.

You can ask them if they have good covereage. (3 or more bids from EC's), if not and they are relying on your number, you could tell them you can submit a budget price so their estimator will have at least three numbers at bid.

Ron

 

[Leestarkweather]

Prevailing Wage Job could be too much overhead

Prevailing Wage Job could be too much overhead

If you're down to almost a "one man band" now, you may not want to do all the paperwork involved on a prevailing wage job, which you said you haven't done before. In economies of scale, the paperwork (per hour worked on jobsite) for one or two employees is killer vs. a crew of 10-40 on a PW job.

This is a late response, but the fact a job is PW and you haven't done one before is a valid reason to demur on similar jobs in the future.

 

[roger]

You can handle it a few ways. Consider asking another EC you have a relationship with to comp you their number, then bump it up a few points (5-10%). This will save face plus give you a respectible placement.
Ron

Which is a form of "Bid Rigging" called "Complemetary Bidding"

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]2. BID RIGGING[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]
[/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]Agreement between bidders to predetermine the winner of a contract.[/FONT][/FONT]
Any agreement among competitors in bidding on contracts to designate one of them to submit the lowest bid is another
form of price fixing. It is also unlawful for competitors to agree to refrain from bidding against each other or to agree
to submit complementary bids in order to falsely create the appearance of competition. Bid rigging appears in many
forms. The following are some examples:​

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]1. Bid Suppression [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]2. Complementary Bidding [/FONT][/FONT]​

- Complementary bidding (also called protective or shadow bidding) occurs when one​

or more competitors submit bids that they know will be rejected because they are too high or do not otherwise comport

with the requirements of the bid specifications. Complementary bidding permits the participants to designate a winner

while maintaining the appearance of competition.​

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]3. Bid Rotation [/FONT][/FONT]​

- In bid rotation schemes, all conspirators submit bids, but take turns being the winning low bidder.​

The terms of rotation may vary. For example, competitors may take turns on contracts according to the size of the

And From the United States Department of Justice​

1. BID RIGGING

Bid rigging is the way that conspiring businesses effectively raise prices where purchasers — often federal, state, or local governments — acquire products or services by soliciting bids. In a bid-rigging conspiracy, competitors agree in advance who will submit the winning bid on a contract that a public or private entity wants to let through a formal or informal competitive bidding process. In other words, competitors agree to eliminate competition for some piece of defined business, whether it be a sale, a contract, or a project.

A bid-rigging conspiracy can take a number of forms, all of which produce anticompetitive results. For example, one of the conspirators who otherwise would be expected to bid, or who has previously bid, might agree not to bid at all or might withdraw a previously submitted bid so that the designated winner's bid will be accepted.​

In other circumstances, one or more of the conspirators might agree to submit a bid that the conspirators know will be higher than the bid of the designated winning bidder. This practice is called complementary bidding or cover bidding. Such bidding includes situations in which one or more of the competitors agree to submit bids that are too high to be the winning bid, but it also includes situations where competitors agree to submit bids that appear to be competitive in price but which fail to comply with other, nonprice bid requirements, such as a requirement that the bidder provide a bid bond. Such schemes enable the designated winning competitor's bid to be accepted in situations where a letting entity requires a minimum number of bidders. As with all per se violations, the essence of bid rigging is the agreement among would-be competitors not to compete, with customers being defrauded because the conspirators agreed to maintain the appearance of competition when, in reality, prices were rigged.​

In order for the conspirators to bid higher than the designated winning bidder, there must be some type of communication among them as to what each of them should bid. Frequently, this communication will involve a face-to-face or telephone conversation between the conspirator who is supposed to win the bid and the conspirator who agreed not to compete. This communication can take other forms, however, such as a written message mailed, faxed, or otherwise electronically transmitted, and does not have to be sent from the winning bidder. ​

After the bid is let, the winning bidder may pay off the coconspirators through cash payments or subcontracts. Purchasing agents might also receive payoffs to make sure that the conspiracy is unreported. A purchasing agent might even be the originator of a conspiracy in circumstances that require bid rigging for the conspiracy to be successful. Evidence of such payoffs can be very persuasive for a jury.

Frequently, however, the bid in question is merely one of a series of bids rigged by the conspirators, and rather than payoffs, the conspirators take turns being the winning bidder or rotate the bids. Competitors may take turns on contracts according to the identity of the customer or the size of the contract, trying to equalize the value of the contracts won by each conspirator over time.​

Roger​