How far would you go?

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McLintock

McLintock

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician
I have a job where the customer wants a circuit out in his pole shed for lights and a battery tender. Not much amps. Problem is the pole shed is 500’ from the meter and 600’ from the panel in the house.

Told him he needs to have the POCO put in a meter at pole shed, does not want to spend the money to do that. Now he asked me what type of extension cord to get to run from the house to the pole shed! Told him that was not wise, as that is not what extension cords are made for and it’s very dangerous to do. Also reminded him again about the voltage drop and the size of cable you would need to compensate for that.

I don’t feel he’s going to let up, how would you handle this, or is there something else I can do?


“ shoot low boys their riding shetland ponies”
 
Do a VD calculation and give him a price. I have run close to 700' for a residential feeder to a shed and 2,000 feet on a commercial project. I would sell him on a feeder to a small panel.

Roger
 
I ran your specs through a VD calculator assuming 30 amps @ 120 volts would be enough power. The result is you need 3/0 CU to keep VD at 3% or less. Running from a 30 amp breaker in the panel, you will need to transition from 3/0 to #4 or less for the breaker, ground, and neutral bar terminals. You could also run 250 KCM AL.

From the calculator: "1 conductor per phase utilizing a 3/0 AWG Copper conductor installed Direct Buried will limit the voltage drop to 2.63% or less when supplying 30 amps for 600.0 feet on a 120 volt 1 phase system."

https://www.southwire.com/calculator-vdrop
 
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As Larry said, solar. One of the few times where solar would actually pay off long term. The customer is running only lights, battery tender can be direct solar.
 
10/2 wground.
if he has 124V at the panel, and wants lights and a battery tender He will still have about 120 at the barn.
I have worked on bad UG wires on a well service that’s 3-400 ft away. Well Pump never missed a beat. Lights and a tender aren’t a problem
 
Hv&Lv and I agree ... if he uses LED lamps and the typical 2A or less tender, his total draw will be in the 1A range. I believe I'd include a voltmeter in the job, perhaps a Kill-A-Watt at under $50, MAYBE in a switched (maintained or pushbutton) outlet or even loose to plug in when something unusual occurs ... like when he plugs in a 2HP table saw, for info for your service call.

If protected by a 15A GFCI, burial will be relatively simple, but the leakage might result in trips. If non-gfci from the house, depth will be a little more difficult. GFCI receptacle at the shed for protection.
 
With voltage drop and a GFI, the vd also pulls up the neutral voltage from ground, half the vd, and pulls the hot down, the other half of the vd.

With the GFI, the GFI outlet type at the end of the run, may not like the raised neutral voltage over ground and nuisance trip. Probably not with a battery tender or led light, but if you get up to the circuit rating and get 104 out of 120, the neutral is at +8V over ground and the GFI may not like that. It would take the battery tender but probably not a power tool. GFI at the source would not have that problem.

Thye are making a new device called something like a solar generator. It's a Li-ion battery pack with built in inverter, looks like the gas powered inverter 2000 Watt generator but plugs into a wall socket to charge the battery and then you take it remote just like the generator.

If you can find one with a small solar panel input, that would be what I would be looking for.

 
240v with 5 amps at the end, 500ft run, im getting 2.36% vd on #8 aluminum. Feed that into a 1.5kva 240x120 xmfr and you've got 10 amps of 120v for very little $.

500ft 6-6-6 (use as 2 hots and the EGC) direct bury AL = $340
xfmr = $160 (another $60 gets you a 2kva transformer and the #6 listed above keeps you under 3% vd for 8 amps of 240v)
60A disco $15
Ground rods, clamps, #4 solid $50
=$565 plus of course you will need a few other things.
 
I have thought about running cable out there, but I just do not want to have him spend a lot of a little. He is good at changing his mind, at the house it started as move some walls to gut the whole house.

I am thinking I will suggest the solar, but I am leery of that because we do not get much sun in the winter months.


“ shoot low boys their riding shetland ponies”
 
LarryFine said:
Solar panels and batteries, and 12v lights.

Offer him a price that includes him trenching and back-filling - to your specs, of course.
Click to expand...

Do you have a product in mind?


“ shoot low boys their riding shetland ponies”
 
McLintock said:
I have a job where the customer wants a circuit out in his pole shed for lights and a battery tender.
Click to expand...
McLintock said:
I am thinking I will suggest the solar, but I am leery of that because we do not get much sun in the winter months.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking that solar would work just great for a few LED lights and battery tender.

The problem is getting people to understand that's all the power they have and the hot tub ( power tools and air compressor ) is definitely out.

Tell him he needs to be honest about what he will wish to do in that shed.
 
Renogy has some decent 12v solar stuff, and they have those lithium battery + inverter boxes (I refuse to call them a 'solar generator')
 
growler said:
The problem is getting people to understand that's all the power they have and the hot tub ( power tools and air compressor ) is definitely out.

Tell him he needs to be honest about what he will wish to do in that shed.
Click to expand...

This!

Educate the customer on the problem, voltage drop versus wire size. Then discuss their true requirements and future plans.

Maybe trench in some oversize conduit but then just run 10/3 and explain that if they run a large load it won't work.
 
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