How large access panel for ceiling mounted J Box

[rockhanger]

Hello electricians....I am about to drywall a basement ceiling for a client and I am planning the access doors/panels for 4 junction boxes I found in the ceiling. (I refused to do as client wanted and just rock them in.) All of these are 4" by 4" by 1" boxes that are used for splices with solid covers (appears to be 3 14/2 romex going into/out of 2 of them and the other 2 have 14/3 in and 2 14/2 out. Of course she wants the access doors to be as small as possible. I can't seem to find any reference to just how big they should be--only that junction boxes must be "accessible" without damaging the building structure or something like that.

The boxes are near the lower edge of the joist to which I will be adding 3/4 furring strips and 1/2 drywall.

Would an 8" by 8" door placed to align with the front edge (cover) of the J box be sufficient if you needed to examine or repair the wirenuts inside the box or trace circuits? If not what would you like to see instead?

Thanks from a fellow tradesperson.

 

[raider1]

Welcome to the forum.

I am going to allow this question to be posted even though the member is not an electrician because the question is directly related to their work as a drywaller.

Chris

 

[nhfire77]

Got a picture?

 

[rockhanger]

How to post pic that is not a url?

How to post pic that is not a url?

I have one on my cell phone camera but no idea how to get it onto here, sorry. Thanks for putting up with me guys.

 

[rockhanger]

figured it out

figured it out

 

[jxofaltrds]

It is a judgement call. I say big enough to hold the cover for the box.

I would not consider 314.29 applicable.

 

[walkerj]

If the box were to just be turned 90 degrees and have the cover face down, a plaster ring could be installed with a blank plate.

This would allow the access to be 3 1/2" x 1 1/2"

It could also be painted the same color/texture as the rest of the ceiling

This is definately a job for an electrician

 

[walkerj]

Thanks for asking this question!

I have yet to meet a rocker in these parts that would of even batted an eye at covering a jbox.

I am trimming a 4-story hotel right now and the guys that hung/are hanging the rock really gave me the shaft.

Every day it is a new adventure:grin:

 

[chris kennedy]

(I refused to do as client wanted and just rock them in.)

Holy crap, how refreshing, there are still responsible craftsman out there!

If the box were to just be turned 90 degrees and have the cover face down, a plaster ring could be installed with a blank plate.

This would allow the access to be 3 1/2" x 1 1/2"

It could also be painted the same color/texture as the rest of the ceiling

This is definately a job for an electrician

There is the answer.

 

[LarryFine]

Good call, Chris!

Good call, Chris!

Rocky, welcome to the forum!

And, kudos to Chris for his decision.

Would an 8" by 8" door placed to align with the front edge (cover) of the J box be sufficient if you needed to examine or repair the wirenuts inside the box or trace circuits? If not what would you like to see instead?

In my opinion, yes, the 8x8 would be enough.

If the box were to just be turned 90 degrees and have the cover face down, a plaster ring could be installed with a blank plate.

This would allow the access to be 3 1/2" x 1 1/2"

If the 4x4 was replaced with a deep 1-gang nail-on, yes.

 

[rockhanger]

Cool idea Jason but dont think there is enough slack in the top wire to make it.

I am thinking the real purpose of the access doors is to let you know where the boxes are, then they can take a hammer to the sheetrock if they need to work on them (and call me in, again)...just kidding.

Seriously though, if there is really the 6" minimum of wire in the box they could be pulled down through a rather small access panel to be tested or worked on, and then tucked back into the box. You just need enough room to get a stubby screwdriver in to loosen and remove the cover. Of course there would be a bit of cursing reaching through an 8" square opening to loosen/retighten the cover screws when your arm blocks the view of the screw.

There will be a couple other access panels to deal with plumbing but that is another forum.

 

[jumper]

Thanks for asking this question!

I have yet to meet a rocker in these parts that would of even batted an eye at covering a jbox.

Holy crap, how refreshing, there are still responsible craftsman out there!

Cooperation between trades, I must be in heaven.

Rockhanger, kudos and more. I mean it!

 

[grich]

Rocky, welcome to the forum!

And, kudos to Chris for his decision.

In my opinion, yes, the 8x8 would be enough.

If the 4x4 was replaced with a deep 1-gang nail-on, yes.

Dealing with this crap right now...while repairing basement flood damage, I decided to reposition a ceiling light. I started tracing wires, and it's turning into a Holmes on Homes episode...previous HO rocked over at least 3 j-boxes, with an overheated splice in one...14 ga. NM scabbed onto 20A circuits, 2 flying splices, ground wires snipped off the NM in all boxes, and half the basement outlets had a H-N reversal! Lived in the house 15 years and never bothered to check.

While most of you were watching football and popping a top this past weekend, I was busting holes in ceilings and re-roping my basement. One buried j-box is gone, and a second has been converted into a deep 1-gang box that is on the ceiling...the missus would rather have a blank 1-gang plate on the ceiling than a hatch.

 

[jetlag]

Cool idea Jason but dont think there is enough slack in the top wire to make it.

I am thinking the real purpose of the access doors is to let you know where the boxes are, then they can take a hammer to the sheetrock if they need to work on them (and call me in, again)...just kidding.

Seriously though, if there is really the 6" minimum of wire in the box they could be pulled down through a rather small access panel to be tested or worked on, and then tucked back into the box. You just need enough room to get a stubby screwdriver in to loosen and remove the cover. Of course there would be a bit of cursing reaching through an 8" square opening to loosen/retighten the cover screws when your arm blocks the view of the screw.

There will be a couple other access panels to deal with plumbing but that is another forum.

cuban cigar for you for caring, the chance of lost connection is very slim, remove cover pull on each wire to be sure wont pull out and tighten nut , for small fee of course ,replace cover , leave youself some notes of location and do what you do best hanging rock . later cut small hole so can see j box and write on back of blank cover " j box above cut rock for access if needed " secure the cover to ceiling and spray or spray fist and use decorative blank ceiling cover . The code says you cant conceal box but says nothing about if you can get hand in 4 '' hole and it is visable

 

[readydave8]

As others have said thanks for caring about your work, like others I don't seem to meet hangers like you.

There is not a standard size hole because other factors are involved in whether the electrician can work in the box. A standard can lite may leave a 6" round hole when pulled down to acess J-box, but the box is mounted to the frame, oriented vertically, bottom is at ceiling level, edge is at or nearly at edge of hole, no obstructions of course since the space at working side of box is normally occupied by the lite itself.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I also give my Kudos to you, however I would call an electrician to properly deal with this issue. It may be the wires can be re worked with existing lights boxes etc. Good luck.

 

[petersonra]

Accessible (as applied to wiring methods). Capable of
being removed or exposed without damaging the building
structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure
or finish of the building.

I think a small hatch in the gypsum board would suffice. Maybe cut a 6X6 hole under the box and use the piece you cut out to make a hatch that just hangs there. It would be pretty easy to do and would not be real obvious. No hinges or anything needed.

 

[construct]

ROCKHANGER, I too must chime in with the others. Thank you for your integrity. If I saw this same consideration on the projects I visit, they would all go more smoothly. Reminds me of a general note an architect put on a set of plans I reviewed.

"All trades shall coordinated work with others." "Coordinate does not mean I was here first."

 

[rockhanger]

Thanks to all

Thanks to all

First of all let me say thanks to all for your advice and to the forum for letting me post.

I dig a little more looking at whether the boxes can be tipped 90 deg as suggested and no go without adding two more boxes to extend the wires. In the end this is going to remain access hatches/doors as planned and I feel better now going with the smaller ones the client wanted. They are 8 by 8 and only cost like $16 each, so no big deal there.

Although I remain licensed etc, I no longer do this for a living. Believe it or not I make my living designing medical equipment for a huge American company. My mom's side of the family was all tradespeople and every one of them of them built 100% of their own houses without contractors, just family and friends. I learned drywall from them, seemed to have a knack for it, and put myself through school doing it. Now I do after hours jobs now simply because I enjoy it--it is stress relief from the corporate world and cubicles where nothing is built with anyone's hands anymore ( I used to prototype things on the milling machine--now it is all CAD--you design on screen and it pops out of the CNC like it was a printer or something) Anyway, I can be pretty selective and take jobs that will be fun with way less time/cost pressure than the big firms take.

The first company I joined out of college had a rule that I hated at the time, but looking back now, it was brilliant. That is: no one could be a design engineer until s/he had worked as a field service repairman for a year! Believe me you learn quick to do things like put service access to things that need to be repaired, when you have spent a year doing things like cussing in front of a customer cause cause some idiot designer had you removing a screw by inserting a screwdriver thru a 1/4 hole to reach 2" in and hope you could find the screw blind and that you didn't drop the screw as you pulled it out with one of those screw holding Vaco screwdrivers.

Bottom line is that job taught me respect to those who might have to work years later on what I did today.

I know I am rambling on late at night. My stepson is a union carpenter and he is full of just the kind of stories you guys related. A little respect goes a long way and it is a damn shame there isn't more of it out there.

Now if only I could get the electricians to offset their boxes to match the thickness of the dry wall....LOL

Thanks again guys....peace

 

[jetlag]

I knew you were not the "run of the mill " rock hanger , those j boxes would have been concealed long ago