How many receptacles to install in an area on a circuit?

[JFletcher]

There are only 26 blocks in a Rubik's Cube. Two planes of 9, and one, the center, plane of 8. Funny, I just tore mine apart and put it back together a few days ago, so I know how many blocks there are for certain, and can list the color combinations of each block.

D'oh! No need to list the colors, unless we're going for a tag-team of confusion for the OP.

My explanation of area and volume was a bit convoluted. Then again, if one can do electrical calculations, figuring out area/volume is a piece of cake. Every time you mark out where the center of a room is (say for a paddle fan box), you are making x/y axes and quadrants

 

[iwire]

D'oh! No need to list the colors, unless we're going for a tag-team of confusion for the OP.

:lol::lol:

 

[lielec11]

The 3VA/ft' tells you how many circuits you need. You can put as many recpts as you want on a circuit.

Which code are you referring to? I do mostly commercial design and very little residential. Based on how I interpret your message, for a 1200sqft residence you would need 400 circuits? (1200sqft) / (3VA/sqft) = 400? That doesn't seem right...

 

[iwire]

1200 sq ft x 3 VA per = 3600 VA worth of circuits required.

So only 3 or 4 circuits

 

[lielec11]

1200 sq ft x 3 VA per = 3600 VA worth of circuits required.

So only 3 or 4 circuits

Got ya, I wasn't sure what everyone was referring to. Which section of the NEC is this in, 220?

 

[iwire]

Sorry don't have my book handy

 

[kwired]

Which code are you referring to? I do mostly commercial design and very little residential. Based on how I interpret your message, for a 1200sqft residence you would need 400 circuits? (1200sqft) / (3VA/sqft) = 400? That doesn't seem right...

You will not get many jobs if you are bidding 400 circuits (majority with AFCI protection) on a 1200 SF home when your competitors are bidding only 10-20 circuits max.

 

[iwire]

Got ya, I wasn't sure what everyone was referring to. Which section of the NEC is this in, 220?

220.12 Lighting Load for Specified Occupancies. A unit
load of not less than that specified in Table 220.12 for
occupancies specified therein shall constitute the minimum
lighting load. The floor area for each floor shall be calculated
from the outside dimensions of the building, dwelling
unit, or other area involved. For dwelling units, the calculated
floor area shall not include open porches, garages, or
unused or unfinished spaces not adaptable for future use.

Combined with

220.14(J) Dwelling Occupancies. In one-family, two-family, and
multifamily dwellings and in guest rooms or guest suites of
hotels and motels, the outlets specified in (J)(1), (J)(2), and
(J)(3) are included in the general lighting load calculations
of 220.12. No additional load calculations shall be required
for such outlets.

(1) All general-use receptacle outlets of 20-ampere rating
or less, including receptacles connected to the circuits
in 210.11(C)(3)

(2) The receptacle outlets specified in 210.52(E) and (G)

(3) The lighting outlets specified in 210.70(A) and (B)

(2011 NEC)

 

[ritelec]

I just confused myself ( which isn't hard to do but )

In the 3va per sq ' formula

There's 600 sq ' to install as many receptacles as you want. (15 amp circuit)

I asked in an early post if you could install 600 watts of lighting and still install as many receptacles as you want
In that area and the answer was yes

It would be a terrible design but could you install 1800 watts (15 amp) of lighting on that 15 amp circuit in that 600 sq' and still install any receptacles in that area on that circuit ? Even as many receptacles as you want ( like 100)?

 

[iwire]

I just confused myself ( which isn't hard to do but )

In the 3va per sq ' formula

There's 600 sq ' to install as many receptacles as you want. (15 amp circuit)

I asked in an early post if you could install 600 watts of lighting and still install as many receptacles as you want
In that area and the answer was yes

It would be a terrible design but could you install 1800 watts (15 amp) of lighting on that 15 amp circuit in that 600 sq' and still install any receptacles in that area on that circuit ? Even as many receptacles as you want ( like 100)?

Keep in mind that receptacles and outlets for specific loads are handled separately so really we are only talking about general purpose receptacles.

Now in your own living room, if we added 50 receptacles to an existing circuit would that cause you to go buy more electrical equipment and run all of it at the same time?

My point is simply that the number of receptacles in a given space will not change the current used by that space.

 

[peter d]

Sorry don't have my book handy

So easy to make a joke out of this but I won't.

 

[ritelec]

Keep in mind that receptacles and outlets for specific loads are handled separately so really we are only talking about general purpose receptacles.

Now in your own living room, if we added 50 receptacles to an existing circuit would that cause you to go buy more electrical equipment and run all of it at the same time?

My point is simply that the number of receptacles in a given space will not change the current used by that space.

Okay. Understood

By code. Could I install 1800watts worth of lighting and 50 general purpose receptacles in a 600 sq ' area on 1-15 amp circuit ?

 

[ritelec]

So easy to make a joke out of this but I won't.

Please do !!!

 

[ActionDave]

Okay. Understood

By code. Could I install 1800watts worth of lighting and 50 general purpose receptacles in a 600 sq ' area on 1-15 amp circuit ?

No. Once you load up a circuit with a known load don't look for ways to overload it.

 

[Little Bill]

Okay. Understood

By code. Could I install 1800watts worth of lighting and 50 general purpose receptacles in a 600 sq ' area on 1-15 amp circuit ?

The 3VA per sq is just for the service sizing. You can put ever how many receptacles and/or lighting that you want in an area, resi speaking that is.
So the answer to your question is YES!!!

 

[lielec11]

You will not get many jobs if you are bidding 400 circuits (majority with AFCI protection) on a 1200 SF home when your competitors are bidding only 10-20 circuits max.

You see I was going with the overwhelm them method.. you mean to tell me families don't want 400 circuits and a similar amount of receptacles in their home? Where will the kids plug in their hoverboards?!

 

[lielec11]

Combined with

220.14(J) Dwelling Occupancies. In one-family, two-family, and
multifamily dwellings and in guest rooms or guest suites of
hotels and motels, the outlets specified in (J)(1), (J)(2), and
(J)(3) are included in the general lighting load calculations
of 220.12. No additional load calculations shall be required
for such outlets.

(1) All general-use receptacle outlets of 20-ampere rating
or less, including receptacles connected to the circuits
in 210.11(C)(3)

(2) The receptacle outlets specified in 210.52(E) and (G)

(3) The lighting outlets specified in 210.70(A) and (B)

(2011 NEC)

Since it doesn't mention 210.52(A), (B), (C), (D), (F), (H) are those circuits not included? Meaning... those circuits are added on after all the general receptacles are taken care of?