How many rules do you have?

Status
Not open for further replies.
360Youth said:
That being said, if they can spend 400k on cabinets and cabinet layout, they can give me a fixture location!!
Click to expand...

But there is no reason they have to. It is really up to them, you can always walk away from the job. :smile:

From their side of it they are paying you thousands of $ and will never understand why you are bing picky about .01% of the job.

JMO, Bob
 
Just typed a really long winded response and the computer fairy came and took it away. So sad that you guys will never know the wisdom I was about to bestow upon you. :mad:
 
360Youth said:
I have to have a bath vanity location and box placement at rough-in. I had done enough guess work and patch work over the years that I was done with it. She leaned back and folded her arms and asked,
Click to expand...

Just weave the wire in the wall across the entire vanity. On the trim you get the fixture and have the builder or homeowner pick the location. Cut your hole, reach in and pull out your wire. VIOLA no more problems. It doesn't matter if they want a vanity light or sconces and it doesn't matter if they change their mind from rough in time to trim time. I've been doing this for years with great success.
 
Last edited:
iwire said:
From their side of it they are paying you thousands of $ and will never understand why you are bing picky about .01% of the job.

JMO, Bob
Click to expand...

I am planning on a call to the GC to make sure I have not overstepped by bounds. Both he and his foremen are aware of this request and are usually on board with it. They are the ones who have to deal with the enevitable sheetrock and paint repairs. I will do what is necessary, have before and will again, but most of the time they pick the fixtures and are good with it. They just like the initial discomfort of actually having to make a decision. :smile:


Didn't we just have a post about whether or not drywall was able to support a fixture. :grin: Seriously, one of the points I made to her about this was the potential of having to mount a larger multi-glass globe fixture from a re-work box because the adequete framing is no longer available to support without change orders, patches, etc. I just think it makes sense to have a location and install accordingly.

GilbeSpark said:
VIOLA no more problems.
Click to expand...

What do you do when they want the fixture centered on the sink and you have a 2" vent pipe right wherre the box goes, or a double stack of studs and no room to get your wire. Believe it or not I am trying to look out for all parties involved.
 
Last edited:
Just like this:
DSC04439a.jpg
 
480sparky said:
Just like this:
DSC04439a.jpg
Click to expand...

I could not get away with that at rough inspection, it would either have to go to a box or be stubbed out of the framing. I actually asked around to a few inspectors since seeing this picture a while back - their take was that they would have no way of knowing if the cable were damaged or supported in the final installation.

That said, once you have beat out an answer of them that says 79" AFF CL of vanity, and that doesn't work because the cabinets are up at 80"+ AFF, or the cabint doors smack the choosen fixture - then you pull out a peice of paper or an e-mail corospondance that says 79" - then it's not your butt, but theirs. So what the GC wasn't paying attention or made a change with cab design - you give 'em a change order to correct their mistake. That'll make 'em think about it some more the next time after a 3-4 trade change order. Cabs +/or rock. paint and you...

I am also of the opinion that supporting certain fixtures on rock is just a liability. Depending of length of protrution and wieght of fixture it might be OK for the fixture you might put there, but if that fixture changes slightly or is handled roughly by someone down the line and it falls out of the wall - the finger will only point to you. That said I am not beyond doing it, I just don't use those type of cut-ins with those puny little ears or such. I'll make a big toggle out of a peice of 2X4X12" or 2 hanger bars (Caddy TB-16's), and slide it into the wall, and use a pancake. This way it needs to pull out a MUCH larger chunk of rock to go anywhere. There are also those chandelier cut-in boxes that have the support with the expanding bar and screw - those work pretty well but are hard to manuver into 2X4 framed walls.
 
OK, I am truly trying not to beat a dead horse, but...


DSC04439aEdit.jpg


What do you do if fixture is here, here, or here? You either have a pipe, a stud with your wire going right through and mounting screws to worry about, or some bizarre heght location that your wire is not within reach, and here we have a non-insulated wall, how many times do we affect an insulated wall to track down the wire. And yes, I have dealt with every one of those scenarios, as I am sure you have, too.

I am not disagreeing that any of these situations can be made to work, I have done it on many occasions, too many. But why do we make ourselves deal with it? Sure we can charge for the time and aggrivation of installation,but then you have to deal with the "Why am I being charged...?" or "Why didn't we discuss this earlier?" Maybe it is just me? :confused: :)
It is not just my pain I am trying to avoid, but painters and GCs as well.


ptonsparky said:
I use a shallow pan or Thepitt 1300 fan box.
Click to expand...

What do you mount it to? The vent pipe?
 
360Youth said:
OK, I am truly trying not to beat a dead horse, butWhat do you do if fixture is here, here, or here?
Click to expand...

You tell the customer there is a obstruction there and your ability to install a fixture there depends entirely on the depth their pockets and these added costs are a direct result of them not supplying the correct location to start with.

Here is how I see it.

At the beginning of the job you clearly ask for the location, if they can not, or will not provide it you tell them this may become an issue later of there are obstructions in the way.
 
iwire said:
Here is how I see it.

At the beginning of the job you clearly ask for the location, if they can not, or will not provide it you tell them this may become an issue later of there are obstructions in the way.
Click to expand...

I completely agree (betcha you never thought was coming on this thread :grin: ). Maybe to say that it was a rule and implication that I do not budge was a little strong, but I am very adamant. I will never be one to say that a customer, whether it is HO or GC can or cannot have something, outside of NEC, I think that is bad business. I thought I was making a stand for our trade, maybe next time will be better. :grin:
 
iwire said:
You tell the customer there is a obstruction there and your ability to install a fixture there depends entirely on the depth their pockets and these added costs are a direct result of them not supplying the correct location to start with.

Here is how I see it.

At the beginning of the job you clearly ask for the location, if they can not, or will not provide it you tell them this may become an issue later of there are obstructions in the way.
Click to expand...
I agree. We get payed to install electrical stuff. I make it very clear in my contracts what it will cost to change, add, move , etc.As Cowboy says I can build you anything if you draw a picture of it on the back of a big enough check.
 
Getting back to the original question. The only rule I had was "be ready for me when I get there". I had this one guy that used to call me all the time and say, "ready". I'd get there and he would only have half the walls framed and say "well at least you can get started". So instead of one day I had two half days and a lot of wasted time.

Or the other GC I had who always wanted to buy the material, I'd show up when scheduled and the first words out of his mouth would be, "Ok I have to run to the wholesale house now".

Like 220/221 said, I hate doing things twice, especially if it's not my fault.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top