How many times to bother a lead?

[LarryFine]

The customer expects the contractor to drive out, look the job over, discuss various options, drive back and submit a detailed bid.

The contractor can easily have 2 hours into this.

The customer expects this to be done for free.

Therein lies the difference between a free estimate and a detailed written proposal, the latter of which I decide whether to charge for on a job-by-job basis.

 

[aline]

Three months ago I submitted a bid to a customer for a remodel project.

The customer never acknlowedge they received my bid.

No reply to my e-mails and no reply to my phone calls.

I assumed they weren't interested in having me do the job.

Yesterday they called and want me to start first thing monday of next week.

 

[aline]

Therein lies the difference between a free estimate and a detailed written proposal, the latter of which I decide whether to charge for on a job-by-job basis.

Not only do they want a detailed written proposal, they also want you to design the project.

The other day I went out to estimate an industrial control wiring project for a new automated production line they were installing.

They handed me a print with just a floor plan and the location of the equipment.
There were no specification on the equipment. No voltage requirements. No amperage requirements. Nothing but a general name of the equipment that was going there.

They wanted me to submit a bid based on this.

They expected me to contact the manufacturers of the equipment and get all the details of the equipment, figure out where I would supply power from and what control wiring would be needed to interface the equipment so I could submit a bid. They expected this to be done for free.

Another job I went and looked at was for a new restaurant.

When I got there he showed me a floor plan that had no electrical on it at all.
He started pointing that he was going to put a soda fountain over here, an ice cream machine here, a grill with a hood and fire suppression system here, dining are here, etc.

He was expecting me to submit a bid based on this.

 

[growler]

Three months ago I submitted a bid to a customer for a remodel project.

The customer never acknlowedge they received my bid.

Yesterday they called and want me to start first thing monday of next week.

All estimates and bids should contain an expiration date letting the customer know how long the bid is good for. Most customers won't pay much attention to it but it does give the EC an out if he should decide that he is no longer interested in the work.

I have done a job four years after the original bid but we did have to renegotiate the price. The customer did understand because we went from recession to boom times and the price was considerably higher but he could afford it. Alway put a limit to a bid as it is a legal document and without an experation date there isn't one.

 

[aline]

All estimates and bids should contain an expiration date letting the customer know how long the bid is good for.

I do that for every estimate I give.

Sometimes my estimate states the price is only good if they have me start the same day I give the estimate.

In other words I present them with a price and a discount if they approve the work and have me start while I'm there giving the estimate.

This has worked well for me. They take a risk if they want to wait and get more bids.

Just the other day I gave a price for a job with a discount if they approved the work and had me start while there.

They asked if they could get more bids since I was the first bid they had gotten.
I said sure but the they would not receive the discount.

They told me to go ahead and start.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I called the morning after I emailed the proposal and it went straight to voicemail, emailed after a couple days, and then called and caught him "at a bad time" and he said he'd call back in a little bit, he never did.


quote]


I would say this was the point at which he was indirectly telling you NO

 

[LarryFine]

Not only do they want a detailed written proposal, they also want you to design the project.

That's not free no matter who ends up doing the job.

They handed me a print with just a floor plan and the location of the equipment.

They wanted me to submit a bid based on this.

Not! (Obviously)

They expected this to be done for free.

Not, again.

Another job I went and looked at was for a new restaurant.

He was expecting me to submit a bid based on this.

Not, thrice.

 

[electricmanscott]

Scott, I don't think I've ventured into PITA territory, yet,

I wonder if the customer agrees. :grin:

 

[LarryFine]

Scott, I don't think I've ventured into PITA territory, yet,

I wonder if the customer agrees. :grin:

I think Goerge should call and get an answer to that question.

 

[Teaspoon]

I called the morning after I emailed the proposal and it went straight to voicemail, emailed after a couple days, and then called and caught him "at a bad time" and he said he'd call back in a little bit, he never did.


quote]


I would say this was the point at which he was indirectly telling you NO

I agree that you have tried to contact the potential customer enough.
The ball is in his court now he will have to decide. I wouldn't waste any more of my time with this guy. I had a simular situation last week. Went out to estimate building a 200 amp service and wiring in a modular home.
I looked the situation over took notes on needed materials & difficulty of the job. Told the customer I would call him back with a price when i got the job figured. He said fine. I called him back late that evening . Gave him the price.
He said he had to talk to his wife. So I figured that was the end of it.
I marked him off my schedule at this point.I knew my Bid was competitive.
Late the next day He called and to my surprise awarded me the job.
You never know what people will do, Of course I figure he was Bargin hunting. Anymore I just give them my price, They accept or reject.
How ever it goes I just go with the flow. Don't haggle .

 

[VoltageHz]

If he requires this many calls and e-mails to get back to you now, imagine how unavailable he'll be when it's time to cut you a check :roll:

 

[readydave8]

If he requires this many calls and e-mails to get back to you now, imagine how unavailable he'll be when it's time to cut you a check :roll:

thats what i was thinking

 

[TwinCitySparky]

Here are my thoughts on this.

The customer expects to get several bids from contractors.

The customer expects the contractor to drive out, look the job over, discuss various options, drive back and submit a detailed bid.

The contractor can easily have 2 hours into this.

The customer expects this to be done for free.

The least the customer can do is acknowledge they received your estimate. Often times they don't. How hard is it to reply to an e-mail and thank the contractor for their time?

The least the customer can do is call the contractor back and let them know they decided to go with someone else or decided not to go through with the project.

It would be even nicer if they would let the contractor know who they decided to go with and why.

A lot of customers don't seem to show contractors much courtesy or respect.
They want free estimates and they want them now. Then they don't even bother to let you know they've received it with a simple reply to your e-mail.

Whenever I e-mail a customer an estimate I ask them to please acknowledge they received my estimate. Very seldom do they do this. When I call I get their voice mail.

I feel it's just plain inconsiderate of them to ignore you.
Is it really that hard for them to say they're not interested in having you do the work or at least acknowledge they received your estimate?

I agree 100%

I think most people know deep down that price-shopping this way is just a lowly thing to do. So they follow up accordingly as well.

 

[electricmanscott]

I agree 100%

I think most people know deep down that price-shopping this way is just a lowly thing to do.

I don't think they do. I know I don't.

I had my driveway redone this year. I got 9, that's right 9 FREE estimates. I called one back. The only reason I called him back was to beat him down on his price. It worked and he got the job.

 

[TwinCitySparky]

Apples to oranges. How much time does it take to estimate a driveway?

Hmmm... # of sq. feet and does the sealer go on the blacktop or the lawn?

 

[George Stolz]

I had my driveway redone this year. I got 9, that's right 9 FREE estimates. I called one back. The only reason I called him back was to beat him down on his price. It worked and he got the job.

Scott, your insights continue to be priceless gems in this forum. I am glad you are here.

I can't express accurately why that comment made me laugh so hard, and it wasn't in a bad way at all - it just stripped it down and threw it on the table in such a direct way.

 

[TwinCitySparky]

Yup -

Treating people like crap. Makes me bust out every time.

 

[bradleyelectric]

I don't think they do. I know I don't.

I had my driveway redone this year. I got 9, that's right 9 FREE estimates. I called one back. The only reason I called him back was to beat him down on his price. It worked and he got the job.

Would you want you to ask you to come look at a job for you?

Man that is confusing to read this morning. It might look better after the games have started and I've got some wings in me.

 

[satcom]

I don't think they do. I know I don't.

I had my driveway redone this year. I got 9, that's right 9 FREE estimates. I called one back. The only reason I called him back was to beat him down on his price. It worked and he got the job.

Wow. getting the driveway redone was a big issue here in my neighborhood this year, two years ago we had about a dozen neighbors get the driveway redone, one of the neighbors called a number of contractors, and found one with a great price, so all the neighbors including me, had this guy do our driveway, well here it is two years down the road, and we were all working outside this past weekend, and the discussion of the work falling apart came up, every driveways that looked beautiful for the past two years, are becoming a mess little by little, it seems this turkey used recycled material on the jobs to low ball the prices, and the city can't do a thing to help anyone because none of the work had permits, the city inspector said if permits were issued, he could try to help everyone.

Cheap truns out to be the most expensive.

 

[electricmanscott]

Would you want you to ask you to come look at a job for you?

I accept that it is the nature of the business, residential at least. It's survival of the fittest with a side of luck thrown in. If it was as simple as giving a price and getting the job everyone would be doing it. :grin:

For the most part people want to pay as little as possible.
You don't have to like it but that's the way it is.

I suspect some of you that piss and moan about people wanting el cheapo electric are the same ones that piss and moan about what you are paying for materials.

As much as it may bother you guys YOU are no different than the customer.

PS: The reason the guy got the job, not so much that he was willing to haggle, I was going to use him anyway, but because he had a nice ad, he showed up when he said he would, and he didn't try to bs me with a sales pitch. He also didn't give me a proposal with a list of clauses, exclusions and disclaimers.

Price wise the range was $7K to $12K This guy was $9200.00 right in the middle. He did the job for $9k.

I have since done work at his house.

One guy showed up, got out of his scary truck and the first thing he said to me was "I have to use the bathroom behind the garage". As he walked behind the garage I thought to myself, Uhh sir, there is NO bathroom behind the garage. Needless to say he was not considered for the job.