How many??

[R2006]

Hi guys and girls and Happy New Year.

Quick question (and I know I'm being a little lazy here not looking it up myself ). I was asked to look at a 5000 sq. ft. house today that another electrician had roughed and for whatever reason didn't finish (money problems I'm sure) anyway when I got to the service it caught my eye that for this big house there were only 14- 15 amp circuit home runs and 15- 20 amp circuits (12 of which are for kitchen apparently). This is for (by my rough count) 110 duplex outlets (not including kitchen), 47 highhats through out, and all the outdoor lighting, and what seems like about 30 other various sconces, chandeliers and such. Am I missing something or does this seem really light on home runs???

Thanks

 

[peter d]

It may a little light, or may not be. My experience with homes like that is EC's tend to go way overkill on the circuits anyway, so overkill is actually the norm rather than the exception. You may very well have a code compliant installation on your hands.

 

[480sparky]

My gut reaction is the lighting circuits may be a little thin, but without all the lamp data that went into the calculations, it's hard to tell.

 

[mdshunk]

30 single poles, in 5K square feet? Does sound a little on the lite side, but probably is a compliant code-minimum install. Too hard to say. They using a lot of fluorescents? Fourteen, 15 amp circuits is something like 25,000 watts when you stop to think about it.

(What's with the takeover work? Other guy didn't get paid and they found you? You undercut the other guy? :smile

 

[billdozier]

how many bedrooms are in the house? what about living rm/den? Id check the rooms and see if the plugs are wired in 14 or 12. Depends on the company and area here. Can you take the time to ohm out the kitchen and figure out how many ckts are in it. I know it would be a pita but will probally save you in the long run. Again whats up with the first ec leaving the job. Cya make the ho buy the lights limits some of your overhead good luck

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Is it possible that there are subpanels in the building?

 

[LarryFine]

Am I missing something or does this seem really light on home runs???

Suggestions, in no particular order:

A. Do your own load calcs, and circuit-load estimates, especially with all those recessed and other lights.

2. Make sure no HR's are missing. You might be more right than you realize. Trace every circuit.

D. Be sure to charge for the time it takes to check the other guy's work, now that you own it.


Now's the time to find out what you have and don't have, while the walls are still open.

 

[220/221]

Last I heard, the ballpark on general lights and receps was 1 per 500 sq feet. That may have been 1975 when I was roping houses.:roll:

12 kitchen circuits seems good to me.

 

[kbsparky]

I just received an interesting letter from a local licensing board on Delmarva concerning job takeovers (my comments in italics):

This procedure applies to Owners, Owners Rep, General Contractors, and Sub-Contractors. If a County licensed electrician becomes terminated before finishing a permitted project, the following procedures shall be followed:

(1) A registered letter from the terminating party must be sent to the County Permit Office within 7 days stating the reasons and date of the termination

(2) A copy of the same letter must be sent to the ... Inspection Agency, County Fire Marshal, and other County agencies as required.


So far, so good. The owner has to make official notification to the County. Not sure what the other county "agencies" are, or how they have to do with this procedure.


(3) The terminated party will need to be present with all parties involved including all inspectors to do a job inspection before the termination can be final. The following items shall be noted in the County records: the percent of work completed, any violations, damaged work, etc. In addition, it must be noted that the work is to be completed by another licensed electrician.

Here I have a problem. Most of the time, the contractor who has been "fired" will not want to have any more to do with a job. He could have a nasty dispute with the owner, skipped town, or even dropped dead. Requiring his presence may be an issue that could be hard to overcome in some instances. I believe that this wording is incorrect, and if it stated "The terminating party..." referring to the owner, instead of the fired contractor, it makes much more sense. I will make an inquiry for clarification on this.

(4) After termination is final by the County the replacement licensed electrician shall file a new permit with the County before starting any work.

Again, a no-brainer. Full agreement with this step.

(5) NOTE: That there will be a stop work order placed on the project until this can be achieved.

A bit excessive, IMO. But I suppose that this gets the point across in that they don't want to tolerate a lot of takeovers.



I've dealt with other jurisdictions where the procedures are haphazard at best. At least, in this case, it's outlined what is expected, and by whom.

 

[LarryFine]

(1) A registered letter from the terminating party must be sent to the County Permit Office within 7 days stating the reasons and date of the termination

Here I have a problem. Most of the time, the contractor who has been "fired" will not want to have any more to do with a job. He could have a nasty dispute with the owner, skipped town, or even dropped dead. Requiring his presence may be an issue that could be hard to overcome in some instances. I believe that this wording is incorrect, and if it stated "The terminating party..." referring to the owner, instead of the fired contractor, it makes much more sense. I will make an inquiry for clarification on this.

I would also ask what if the 'terminating party' in #1 is the contractor; say if he forces the termination via his breach of contract? Or does that allow the customer to become the terminator?

(No "Ahnold" jokes, please. :smile

 

[R2006]

Thanks for all the resonses. As I said I'm sure theres a money issue on this job. I'm just not sure who's at fault yet. And I'm not even sure were going to be intrested in this project anyway. Lots of other issues besides money, the e.c ran wiring in returns, the grounding system is undersized and installed wrong, alot of wires hanging but nos labled,and the list go's on. It just struck me funny that a house this size only had 30 circuits.