How much is safety worth?

[mjc1060]

Article 90.1 (NEC 2008) states that the purpose of the code is to protect life and property from the hazards arising from electricity. The code further states 110.12 (NEC 2008) that all work shall be installed in a neat and workmanlike manner. Section A (110.12A) goes even further and prohibits open wiring (my interpretation is that covers for boxes shall not be left open). I am currently working with Building Engineers (I am an unemployed electrician) whose job is currently building maintenance. My colleagues can?t see the problem with open wiring. Please view the attached photos. I could find even more violations of the NEC code with these pictures. What I am asking is if you agree with what I believe to be a major problem? This wiring is located above an acoustical tile ceiling. The ballast is lying on the tile (no equipment ground) with no protection from accidental contact. When I see work like this, how does an AHJ define qualified person?

 

[petersonra]

Just out of curiousity, who is exposed to any special danger from these issues?

I am not advocating that they are OK. But, it does not appear like there is any special danger from it.

My inclination would be to clean up such things when you get a chance and not worry about it all that much.

 

[mjc1060]

Responding to petersona

Responding to petersona

My issue is that this has been accepted by supervision as safe work. Now if no one goes into the ceiling and comes in contact with wiring then I guess there is no problem. There are alot of what ifs But my question when you have no intentions of ever meeting basic code requirements why use the code at all. The question I have is when can we make time and pay for safe conditions?

 

[sii]

Most companies will not give a second thought to anything unless it costs them money. I think we've all experienced that to some degree or another.

 

[Strathead]

Just out of curiousity, who is exposed to any special danger from these issues?

I am not advocating that they are OK. But, it does not appear like there is any special danger from it.

My inclination would be to clean up such things when you get a chance and not worry about it all that much.

the fireman who pulls the ceiling down and gets hit on the head
the secretary walking under the tile when the weight of the ballast breaks through.
The electrician that tries to do the job right and put the cover on without deenergizing and finds that the same electrician that didn't care about putting covers on, also doesn't knwo how to twist a wire nut.

Just saying. But I agree that none of it is an immediate threat and my inclination would be the same as yours.

 

[petersonra]

the fireman who pulls the ceiling down and gets hit on the head
the secretary walking under the tile when the weight of the ballast breaks through.
The electrician that tries to do the job right and put the cover on without deenergizing and finds that the same electrician that didn't care about putting covers on, also doesn't knwo how to twist a wire nut.

Just saying. But I agree that none of it is an immediate threat and my inclination would be the same as yours.

You won't get an argument from me that any of this is a desirable situation, but in the grand scheme of things, it is pretty much small potatoes.

Cleaning it up as you come across it is about the best that can probably be done and maybe some of the others will start to appreciate it being done better and emulate that.

 

[mjc1060]

I agree with all the responses. What I need to do is find a better way to get my point across. I also do not believe this is not trivial enough to ignore. I have been working as an operating engineer for the past year,and I have come across quite a few electrical problems. What is unfortunate is the lack of regulation to prevent this type of work and the lack of training required to do it. I only took this job because I could not find work as an electrician. I find it disturbing that the people who are working produce this type of product. But as strathead said unless the problem cost the company money nothing will happen. Maybee this is a better question for OSHA?

 

[hillbilly1]

I agree with all the responses. What I need to do is find a better way to get my point across. I also do not believe this is not trivial enough to ignore. I have been working as an operating engineer for the past year,and I have come across quite a few electrical problems. What is unfortunate is the lack of regulation to prevent this type of work and the lack of training required to do it. I only took this job because I could not find work as an electrician. I find it disturbing that the people who are working produce this type of product. But as strathead said unless the problem cost the company money nothing will happen. Maybee this is a better question for OSHA?

I don't think training has a lot to do with it, it's really attitude. We just had an arc flash incident with a sub contractor that's employees had the best training in the world,(most of you know who we are talking about here) they were too lazy to turn it off and did not wear the proper ppe. They suffered severe injuries because of it.

 

[LLSolutions]

Unfortunately it usually takes something tragic to change poor work practices. If I was in anyway responsible for that work, be it installer, foreman, supervisor, i would bring this to the attention of those above me and keep moving up the ladder until the issues or individuals were addressed. However that creates another choice, do you raise this issue at the expense of you job and current means of supporting your family? I take my trade seriously and proudly stand by my workmanship, however I have had the great fortune of working with and for people who have put quality ahead of the job making a few more bucks. I've just accepted that I can't ever be cheaper on an install that some of these contractors and employees that do substandard work. I would like to believe that in the long run I offer more value.