How much "shrinkage" tolerable?

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Cletis

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OH
Sorry for cheesy title but i wanted to draw you all here. We have had a wonderful last 3 yrs full of embezzling, stealing (material/time/customers) etc. how much of this do you other fellow business owners deal with? For example, if one guy steals $475/yr off you but you make $30k off him is that tolerable?


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Where does a perq become theft? I've worked for many places where we were allowed to use the copy machine as long as we kept it to a few pages a month (or brought our own paper); same for the postage machine (use it, drop some money in the paper cup). That's not theft, nor is, say, allowing someone to take the scrap. OTOH if the shop rule is that all scrap comes back and somebody's keeping that's theft.

$475 a year is $40/month- I'd call that more substantial than a few boxes and wirenuts. What's the shop policy about materials for personal use?

OTOH, taking actual money or customers is an instant "red card" in my book.
 
I'm with others. There is no acceptable theft. I am a project manager. If someone who works for me asks for three wire nuts, I will likely tell them to take them, but if I need three wire nuts, I will ask the VP if I can take them. I know the answer is yes, but that doesn't matter. Letting my employees take minor items is my perogative, but I make sure they know the permission is a one time thing, and if they want something else they need to ask again.
 
Sorry for cheesy title but i wanted to draw you all here. We have had a wonderful last 3 yrs full of embezzling, stealing (material/time/customers) etc. how much of this do you other fellow business owners deal with? For example, if one guy steals $475/yr off you but you make $30k off him is that tolerable?


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I think theft is theft but I also think that people usually steal more time than anything else. The shear amount of time wasted on personal business probably far exceeds any material theft.

Add in the time wasted posting on the Internet and you have a bunch of money. :)

I would not get real dogmatic about it. When you get real rigid about that kind of thing it sometimes forces you to do things you would rather not do. Sometimes it is better to just not see what is happening.
 
Interesting that we are all pretty rigid on direct theft, but if your employer instructs you to take shortcuts with a job to get it done faster, ones that arent ethical or NEC compliant, and you do it, saving your own ass suddenly overrides what is essentially complicity in stealing from the customer, and morality goes out the window.

Dont bite the hand that feeds goes beyond your immediate paycheck, i.e., the person/co you work for.

I posted the other day about creative overestimating, however that was in dealing with dishonest employers, and they are out there as much as thieving employees.

Some say it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission. Hogwash.

I dont think we're talking about taking home a few wirenuts, NM staples and crimp sleeves in your tool pouch tho (and being ready to go first job start of the next day). and for time, it get murky: say the boss scheduled a job for 4 hours. It takes you 5. Did you pad your time an hour, run into unforeseen problems, or was the 4 hour timetable unreasonable?

$475 a year is more than incidental/accidental expenses in lost material to me. That's a rotohammer, powder actuated tool, or 250' of NM a month for duration of employment.

Employees wasting time is usually far more costly than materials theft. Doing a ****** job and having to go back is more costly still, but it seems everyone has the time to do it twice.
 
I'm with most of everyone else. We have a no tolerance policy on theft or cooking the timecards... Termination after the first occurrence. We also have a no side job policy. If the guys want to do work for their buddy or whoever, they come to us and we work something out. It typically involves them donating most of their time and the buddy pays for the time and material plus 20%. It's worked out well so far.

We collect scrap at the shop and about once a quarter we have an apprentice sort it all and take it in. Then it gets split between all the employees. It's a nice little bonus once a quarter and it seems to prevent guys from throwing it away or stealing it.

Im very fortunate to have a great group of trustworthy guys. I don't envy you guys that have to deal with dishonesty, you have my sympathy!
 
Stealing money from bank account, office equipt, side jobbin customers
I can't believe you would have to come here to ask what others would do. I don't care how good he is or how much money the company made from him, not only would he be fired, the first two items in your list would be grounds for prosecuting.

With that said, if you run your company based on what others in a forum would do then carry on.

Roger
 
Any piece of material that can fit in my pocket or high vis vest I have a small bucket of at home. I never take anything intentionally and I do not do side projects because I do not enjoy it.
 
Many posters have lamented the lack of good/qualified help. and while embezzelment and customer stealing are very serious issues, I dont think Cletis would be asking if that employee didnt bring him some serious benefits as well.

imho, an employee doing that at the best needs a serious talking to, at worst, termination and prosecution. 3 years tho sounds like he isnt going to change nor deserves a second (fifteenth?) chance.

For some perspective, Dollar Tree here has an annual shrinkage of ~$75k a year, or $200/day. I take that to mean 200 items a day are stolen/destroyed/lost by employees/customers. That seems insane considering they are only open 14 hours a day, but they still profit, and quite handsomely. I'm not saying 'deal with it' like the big boys, but if your thief is also the Golden Goose, you have a dilemma for sure.
 
The first replies pretty much cover it so this thread can be closed.

Roger
 
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