How to handle correctly-dissatisfied customer

[LarryFine]

I recently installed a Mighty Mule sliding-gate opener for a customer. After a couple of weeks, the first one quit. Apparently, the motor quit or the electric brake jammed. I clicked but did not move. They sent a replacement, which ran but acted jammed even before installing the chain, so they sent another one, which worked but the battery-charging circuitry failed, so they sent a replacement circuit board, and said the batteries must be charged before the new board would recognize and charge them.

So, they are now charged and I am waiting for the customer to let me know when I can bring them back. The problem is that he is fed up with all of this, and asked me why I keep using the same company. Warranty won't pay for another brand, obviously. He said he is done, that I have failed to provide a working gate system, and wants a refund so he can find another contractor. I asked him to be a little more patient and see if this works. If anything else goes wrong, he will insist on a refund.

With each failure, I have had to make at least two trips there, as well as get on the phone with Mighty Mule to go through their hoops to determine the equipment is defective, wait for and then bring back the new unit and replace the old one, all at my own expense, as they do not cover labor. If the customer wants his money back, how do I protect myself from a further royal reaming? Is there a way to force a supplier to cover the extra six to eight trips I've had to make at one to two hours each?

What do I do? I feel that he paid me some money for equipment and some for my labor. I performed the labor, so should I have to give back every penny, or just what I receive for the returned equipment, presuming I even get that back? What about my mark-up? The pedestal is in the ground, so that can't be returned. I bought the unit through Home Depot, in case that makes any difference, but haven't pursued that avenue yet. As far as I know, I am to deal directly with Mighty Mule as I have been.

I don't blame him, but I don't blame myself, either. "Help me, Obi-wan Kenobi! You're my only hope!"

 

[petersonra]

I don't mean to offend you in some way, so please don't take these questions that way.

To me the important thing is

1. do you have any significant experience with this kind of work

2. do you have any significant experience with this particular brand of equipment.

if the answer is no to either question I think you know what you should do.

If it is just bad luck, maybe continue trying to fix it. But is seems to me something is not right here with all these failures. Might be mechanical in nature.

read the amazon one star reviews and see if they seem familiar.

https://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Mule-...p_d_hist_1?filterByStar=one_star&pageNumber=1

 

[LarryFine]

No offense taken.

The issues are equipment-related, not installation-related. Very different problems each time. 10 years of experience wouldn't change anything that has happened, unless a trend with a particular brand emerges.

No, that honestly doesn't tell me what I should do. Nobody should be expected to work for 20 hours free. The customer and I are on the same side. My questions about how to handle this are not rhetorical.

 

[sameguy]

No offense taken.

The issues are equipment-related, not installation-related. Very different problems each time. 10 years of experience wouldn't change anything that has happened, unless a trend with a particular brand emerges.

No, that honestly doesn't tell me what I should do. Nobody should be expected to work for 20 hours free. The customer and I are on the same side. My questions about how to handle this are not rhetorical.

Per Amazon 35% bad! I wouldn't buy it. Looks like you need to eat this and/or replace with a different brand.
Did you pick it out or the customer? If you than it's you, if customer than his junk and needs to pay.
The Ghost Controls looks better same price. If it was me I would next day that one and return the mule, just looked at Amazon so could be better at similar pricing if you look around. My name is worth a lot and sometimes you have to pay.

 

[winnie]

This is me speaking as a cheap-skate customer:

When I buy hardware and hire someone to install it, I expect that I will have to deal with any sort of warranty issues, and if something goes wrong I expect that I will have to pay the contractor more to fix it, unless the contractor screwed up in some clear way.

When the contractor buys the thing being installed, I expect them to add a significant 'overhead' to the price. Eg. they will charge 'list' for the item even though I know it can be purchased for half of 'list'. However I expect the contractor to deal with the warranty, either eating the cost of fixing problems (out of the overhead), dealing with charging the manufacturer, etc.

I don't do installation contracting, so please treat the above as a customer viewpoint.

-Jon

 

[brantmacga]

If you can get the supplier to refund the cost of equipment , I would consider eating the labor and walking away.

I’ll connect or service mighty mule gates for existing customers that I have a good relationship with as long as they purchase whatever parts are needed. I will not F&I them.

I would recommend you look at Viking access systems if you want to provide a quality gate operator.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[charlie b]

My answer is that you performed the labor (for the original installation) and deserve to be paid for it. Since you bought the gate from Home Depot, I would return whatever materials you have (or can get the owner to let you take), and return it to the store. Whatever they give you as a refund should go to the owner. The additional time spent trying to fix the problem should be on your own dime. That, at least, is how I would look at it from the customer's angle.

 

[LarryFine]

Home Depot only refunds within 30 days. Go talk to the vendor (Mighty Mule). :roll:

Mighty Mule doesn't do refunds, only tech support. Go talk to Home Depot. :roll:

Both say no refund if the unit has been opened and/or installed. :rant:

How am I supposed to know there would be problems before opening the box? :?

I also ran a receptacle from the house to the shed for the transformer, so he keeps that.

 

[hbiss]

The problem is that he is fed up with all of this, and asked me why I keep using the same company.

So I assume that this is a product you recommended to the customer.

I was going to slam Home Despot but those reviews make it obvious that it doesn't matter where anybody purchased it from, it's crap. If you are not familiar with a product ALWAYS Google it to see what other people have to say about it. As far as I can see those guys don't even belong in business.

I don't blame your customer whatsoever and it's on you to make it right. I would cut my losses, refund his money then go after the manufacturer. I don't know how much you are out. You might want to consult an attorney, it might be covered under your states Lemon Law. Then perhaps a strongly worded letter to the manufacturer from your attorney that happens to also mention their stellar reputation will get you a refund.

-Hal

 

[LarryFine]

Best advice yet. Thanx!

 

[gadfly56]

This is sort of a "horse and barn door" observation, but did you consider buying the extended coverage for the product? I see on line that HD's price for sliding gate openers start at $900 and go up from there. I don't know if that would have given you any extra leverage or not.

 

[hbiss]

I don't see what an extended warranty would be good for if it craps out in the first two weeks. An extended warranty assumes that it will work properly long enough for the original warranty to run out. This thing will be in the dumpster long before then.

-Hal

 

[Coppersmith]

I was conflicted as to how to answer this question so I ran it by my wife. She said that if you bought a car and it had problems, the dealer would tell you they would fix the problems. They would not offer you a refund.

Based on what she said, my opinion is the only reason to offer a refund is to avoid a hit to your reputation. Other than that, and assuming you made the selection of product without customer input, your obligation is limited to getting the thing working. The case for not giving a refund becomes even stronger if the customer had a hand in selecting the product. If the gate opener was fully selected by the customer, you should be charging for every labor hour invested in installing and fixing the thing.

Even if you decided to offer a refund on the gate opener, I would not refund the branch circuit you ran to the gate opener. That's working fine I assume and any other installation by anyone else will require that.

 

[gadfly56]

I was conflicted as to how to answer this question so I ran it by my wife. She said that if you bought a car and it had problems, the dealer would tell you they would fix the problems. They would not offer you a refund.

Based on what she said, my opinion is the only reason to offer a refund is to avoid a hit to your reputation. Other than that, and assuming you made the selection of product without customer input, your obligation is limited to getting the thing working. The case for not giving a refund becomes even stronger if the customer had a hand in selecting the product. If the gate opener was fully selected by the customer, you should be charging for every labor hour invested in installing and fixing the thing.

Even if you decided to offer a refund on the gate opener, I would not refund the branch circuit you ran to the gate opener. That's working fine I assume and any other installation by anyone else will require that.

Read the fine print. The OP isn't offering a refund, the customer is demanding a refund.

For what it's worth, there doesn't seem to be reasonable grounds for rejecting any other part of the work. If anything is refunded, only the material cost of the opener should be considered, not any of the ancillary work that had to be done or the installation labor for the opener itself.

 

[Fulthrotl]

He said he is done, that I have failed to provide a working gate system, and wants a refund so he can find another contractor. I asked him to be a little more patient and see if this works. If anything else goes wrong, he will insist on a refund.

if i was in your situation, and i've been in similar ones, i'd call up the guy with the
broken gate, and figure out what to do.

you are both on the same side in this, and want the same solution.

the problem you have at this point isn't the gate opener. it's getting him
to see it from your point of view, and the only way to get there is to start
by seeing his point of view. then you can figure out how to make the best
of a crappy situation.

you both got hosed here. i've had situations go sideways, the worst of which
was $40k in industrial work, that blew up AFTER the material was delivered,
when the owners representative went to the city manager, and wanted to
have the building inspector fired.

the parent company was OOCL, the shipping concern. corporate to the max.
the satellite holding company referred me to the mother ship, and i had
to explain the situation about ten times to different people.

they paid my material, with markup, in full. i left all the material there,
and it was someone else's problem.

good luck getting everyone on the same side.

 

[kwired]

Home Depot only refunds within 30 days. Go talk to the vendor (Mighty Mule). :roll:

Mighty Mule doesn't do refunds, only tech support. Go talk to Home Depot. :roll:

Both say no refund if the unit has been opened and/or installed. :rant:

How am I supposed to know there would be problems before opening the box? :?

I also ran a receptacle from the house to the shed for the transformer, so he keeps that.

When you bring it to HD and they refuse to refund, tell them they are going to at least dispose of their junk and walk away without it. If they then run you down wanting you to take it hand them a $10 bill and tell them you are paying them to dispose of their junk

I was conflicted as to how to answer this question so I ran it by my wife. She said that if you bought a car and it had problems, the dealer would tell you they would fix the problems. They would not offer you a refund.

Based on what she said, my opinion is the only reason to offer a refund is to avoid a hit to your reputation. Other than that, and assuming you made the selection of product without customer input, your obligation is limited to getting the thing working. The case for not giving a refund becomes even stronger if the customer had a hand in selecting the product. If the gate opener was fully selected by the customer, you should be charging for every labor hour invested in installing and fixing the thing.

Even if you decided to offer a refund on the gate opener, I would not refund the branch circuit you ran to the gate opener. That's working fine I assume and any other installation by anyone else will require that.

Problem is from the customer perspective Larry is more less the dealer in this situation, though he is in reality a middle man that has both ends pulling in different directions.

I do agree that he should not refund the amount that applies to the branch circuit that has nothing wrong with it regardless of what else happens with the gate operator.

 

[Coppersmith]

Read the fine print. The OP isn't offering a refund, the customer is demanding a refund.

The customer can make a demand but there is nothing forcing Larry to make a refund. The refund will only occur if Larry chooses to offer it. Larry is in total control of the refund situation.

One of the many synonyms of "offer" is "provide". Perhaps if I had said "provide" instead, my meaning would have been clearer. My apologies for the confusion.

https://www.google.com/search?q=offer+definition

 

[hbiss]

I was conflicted as to how to answer this question so I ran it by my wife. She said that if you bought a car and it had problems, the dealer would tell you they would fix the problems. They would not offer you a refund.

Well, that's not completely true. Here, at least in NY and it may be true in other states, a car dealer has three chances to fix a problem. If after the third try the problem is unresolved he has to give you a refund or a new car. Of course, some restrictions apply.

I have to look at this from the customers perspective. He hired Larry to install a gate opener. Larry recommends and installs that mule thing. Customer pays him for it and the installation. A short while later it stops working. After repeated attempts Larry can't make it work. I understand what some people are saying about getting the customer to see his point of view. If I were the customer, no matter how nice a guy Larry might be, I really wouldn't care. I hired and paid you to install a gate opener. You can't give me a working gate opener. End of story. And really if he were to take you to small claims with that story he would prevail and I don't think you want to go that route.

So sit down with the customer and decide what's a fair amount for the other work you did that can be used for another opener installation and refund him the rest.

Then find out what your recourse is with the manufacturer and Home Despot.

Thinking here- did you pay for it with a credit card? Does the credit card offer any kind of warranty protection?

-Hal

 

[macmikeman]

I'm going to post something that is not really going to help Larry out with his problem, but it may help out the next guy looking for a good gate opener. I used to put in swing gate openers from a company out of Italy called FAAC. For the most part the stuff was pretty good and lasted for a long time. Pricing was fair also. Here is a link to a stateside vendor. http://www.gatesnfences.com/FAAC-Ga...ydraulic-Commercial-Residential-Operator.html

 

[romex jockey]

Is there a way to force a supplier to cover the extra six to eight trips I've had to make at one to two hours each?

Quite the notion

I'd be in arubba suckin' down those ubrella drinks if i could reclaim all the afci callbacks over the last 20 years....


~RJ~