How to identify Emergency Electrical Outlets that aren't red

[GreenMan]

Hello -

I work in an assisted living building with a standby generator. None of the wall outlets are labeled 'generator' or are red. I know some are active during an outage. How can I locate the emergency receptacles?
Thanks!

 

[John120/240]

Do you have an original set of Blue Prints ? Check them. Is there a panel directory at the panel ? When on generator power use a receptacle tester to identify live receptacles. There are circuit breaker finders available also. Use the circuit breaker finder when on generator power.

 

[gadfly56]

Once you identify the receptacles on e-power as John120/240 suggested, you could pull the face plates and paint them red or whatever color you want to permanently identify them.

 

[GreenMan]

Thanks for the reply...

I was hoping there was a 'magical' way to detect them without killing regular power. I work in a senior assisted living building - 3 floors...
If I kill the power, mass confusion sets in....
I seem to remember when a service tech came in to do scheduled regular maintenance on the generator, he told me a way to detect them...but I can't remember what he said....
-- Maybe the best way is to find the prints.

Thanks!

 

[GoldDigger]

You need to identify which panel or panels are transferred to the generator when power fails.
Once you have done that you can use a circuit breaker finder to see which receptacles are fed from that panel.
This is probably best done with two people and cell or radio communication.

 

[GreenMan]

Thanks! A circuit breaker finder... Now I have an excuse to buy more tools..... :thumbsup:

 

[iwire]

Thanks! A circuit breaker finder... Now I have an excuse to buy more tools..... :thumbsup:

Expect a decent tracer to cost more than $500.00

Even with a good tracer it's going to take a long time. You mentioned you work there, if it was me I would working one room at a time and identify every circuit in the room. Make a sketch and now you will have a record of what is fed by what

Two of my coworkers spent almost three weeks doing this in a three story office building.

 

[John120/240]

Even with a good tracer it's going to take a long time. You mentioned you work there, if it was me I would working one room at a time and identify every circuit in the room. Make a sketch and now you will have a record of what is fed by what

Two of my coworkers spent almost three weeks doing this in a three story office building.

Thats a fine idea Bob, but from my stint in a similar facility There never was enough time to do it right. At my building $$$$ rules & empty apartments generate no $$$$.

 

[iwire]

Thats a fine idea Bob, but from my stint in a similar facility There never was enough time to do it right. At my building $$$$ rules & empty apartments generate no $$$$.

How do you propose to do it?

 

[John120/240]

How do you propose to do it?

Exactly like you said. Two guys, cell phones or two way radios & patience. But as I said the $$$ rules, the powers that be don't understand the benefit of identifying whats on different circuits.

 

[gadfly56]

Exactly like you said. Two guys, cell phones or two way radios & patience. But as I said the $$$ rules, the powers that be don't understand the benefit of identifying whats on different circuits.

In the end, you'll have a true and accurate panel schedule as a bonus. This can make your life SO much easier in the future. While he's at it, each outlet that's identified should have the panel ID and circuit number written in Sharpie on the backside of the face plate.

 

[Strathead]

I think your situation will dictate what you should and shouldn't do. As you have guessed by now, there is no magical cure. The circuit tracer suggestion is good, but it works "backwards" from what would be a great solution. You must put it on a receptacle and then go to the panel and figure out if it is fed from emergency not the other way around. So my suggestions for you.

• first without exception spend whatever time is necessary to track down the building As-built plans. In my experience, unless it is a very old facility they are somewhere.
• Next read the panel schedules, even when they don't give full accurate information much can be taken from them, like dedicated loads.
• Third expect similar areas to be similar. For example if the first recep in a room is on emergency, then probably this is true for all first receps.
• Either turn off the circuits if you can and identify which are dead, or use a tracer if you can't. Using the rule above, the more you identify, the quicker you will find more.
• When you find one, poke you head above ceiling and see if you can get a clue what the conduit and wiring does. Also a good tracer can actually read general direction of wiring above ceiling below floor etc. even without a ladder. You can get clues from this.
• One last thing that isn't absolute. Installation is generally done with some logic and the more you discover the clearer that logic should become.

 

[Electric-Light]

Generators are usually free running.
One method is to reference against a KNOWN utility fed power.
Activate the generator.

There are three conveyor belts. I'm to your left. There's someone else to your right. We're sitting staggered.

You would know which side your seat is "tied". If you were tied to my belt, you'll never see the distance between you and I change. In the real world it's practically impossible to maintain the "tied" relationship so you'll notice the relative distance between ourselves change.

If you stick one probe into the hot of a KNOWN utility fed power, and the other probe into the UNKNOWN, the voltage reading will rhythmically go up and down slowly. This requires a cord long enough to reach a KNOWN utility fed outlet which may not be practical.

Another way is to measure the Hz. The utility frequency stays very close to 60.00Hz and never swings quickly. Larger generators are more stable, but it will never be stable as the grid.

 

[iwire]

Generators are usually free running.
One method is to reference against a KNOWN utility fed power.
Activate the generator.

There are three conveyor belts. I'm to your left. There's someone else to your right. We're sitting staggered.

You would know which side your seat is "tied". If you were tied to my belt, you'll never see the distance between you and I change. In the real world it's practically impossible to maintain the "tied" relationship so you'll notice the relative distance between ourselves change.

If you stick one probe into the hot of a KNOWN utility fed power, and the other probe into the UNKNOWN, the voltage reading will rhythmically go up and down slowly. This requires a cord long enough to reach a KNOWN utility fed outlet which may not be practical.

Another way is to measure the Hz. The utility frequency stays very close to 60.00Hz and never swings quickly. Larger generators are more stable, but it will never be stable as the grid.

You seem to be assuming the generator is running and supplying the receptacals. That would not normally be the case. They all would be on the same utility supply.

Now of course I could force a generator start and transfer but most customers get upset when you dump all the loads on the emergency circuits even for that short transfer.

 

[GoldDigger]

A lab where I once worked had a set of generator backed "emergency" power circuits for loads which had to be maintained to prevent damage to equipment in thr event of a power failure.
(e.g. mechanical forepumps on oil diffusion pumps.)
Only problem was that too many experimenters put too many loads on the system and the main breaker on the subpanel opened.
The cleanup took weeks.
So in addition to knowing which receptacles are backed up you will need to have a policy on what gets connected to them.

 

[under8ed]

Expect a decent tracer to cost more than $500.00...Even with a good tracer it's going to take a long time....

Many electricians require the features of these more expensive tracers, (mostly for the use on non-powered wires). I have used many and my favorite for strictly locating breakers is also one of the cheapest. The Extech CB-10 is only $39 and I am more confidant using this one than more expensive models. The transmitter section is made cheaply and with daily use they don't last long but the accuracy is dead on & I can locate the correct breaker in seconds. The device does have the extra functions of verifying correct receptacle wiring & testing GFCI circuits.
We have learned to extend the life of the transmitter piece by making a pigtail adaptor, (this ends the constant plugging & unplugging that destroys the transmitter). I also have another adapter with insulated alligator clips. With the proper PPE, 120 volt circuits without a receptacle can be safely located.

 

[iwire]

Many electricians require the features of these more expensive tracers, (mostly for the use on non-powered wires).

I have not had good luck with cheap live circuit tracers in large buildings that have a lot of electronic loads interfering with the tracers.

But I have not tried the one you show.

What types of locations are you using this one in?

 

[ritelec]

Thanks! A circuit breaker finder... Now I have an excuse to buy more tools..... :thumbsup:

picked this up a couple months back............without a doubt the BEST purchase I've ever made..............it's a great thang.......

 

[kwired]

Thanks for the reply...

I was hoping there was a 'magical' way to detect them without killing regular power. I work in a senior assisted living building - 3 floors...
If I kill the power, mass confusion sets in....
I seem to remember when a service tech came in to do scheduled regular maintenance on the generator, he told me a way to detect them...but I can't remember what he said....
-- Maybe the best way is to find the prints.

Thanks!

If you actually have a power outage and are running on the generator, that is the time to run around with a simple receptacle tester and check to see what has power and make note of it so you can sort out which panel/circuit it is fed from at some other time if needed. Make note of any other fixed wiring loads you notice are operating as well. And check any items you know are required to be on emergency system to ensure they are actually on it - things happen.

Thats a fine idea Bob, but from my stint in a similar facility There never was enough time to do it right. At my building $$$$ rules & empty apartments generate no $$$$.

But you can at least start to note what panel/breaker whenever you do need to work on somehting and do shut a circuit down. Sooner or later you start to get most things identified correctly.

 

[under8ed]

I have not had good luck with cheap live circuit tracers in large buildings that have a lot of electronic loads interfering with the tracers.
But I have not tried the one you show.What types of locations are you using this one in?

A large manufacturing facility, (nearly a million sq ft) with many of the loads you describe. There have been a very few instances of that type interaction. When this does occur, you are not mislead.. it is obvious there is interference and you know another method is needed.