How Would You Handle this Call

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petersonra said:
I would ask him to take a picture of the label showing the listing mark.
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LOL, it won't be there... but you knew that.

He said "They sold them all over the world...", meaning it is made in China and they don't give a rat's you-know-what about safety, listings etc... No liability accepted and no recourse for the survivors. Amazon is full of such stuff now.
 
I had a similar situation with a repeat customer's brand new restaurant dishwashing machine that was tripping a gfci.

I asked him kindly to not try to pressure me into creating an unsafe situation. Won't do it, it's a wasted trip to come look. It's a faulty machine, no matter how much it cost.
 
I would tell him that the only thing you can do is install the gfci back. There is obviously nothing wrong with the circuit other than a lack of gfci. The issue is the machine... Walk away..... If it was a regular customer I might help out
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I would tell him that the only thing you can do is install the gfci back. There is obviously nothing wrong with the circuit other than a lack of gfci. The issue is the machine... Walk away..... If it was a regular customer I might help out
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He is a customer that calls once, maybe twice, a year. It's usually something odd or eccentric that he wants done, but sometimes a decent job
 
You already explained the REAL situation to him, If he doesn't wish to deal with the manufacturer or supplier (or pay you to do so) suggest he put plywood down on the floor :)
 
Little Bill said:
I get a call from one of my customers stating he is getting shocked on the metal housing of a new machine he just bought. The machine is some type of freeze-dried/vacuum sealed device. He states he called the mfg and they were going to send him a video of how to take the cover off to check the grounding terminations. He went on to state that he was barefoot, on his concrete garage floor. RED FLAG #1
I asked if he had it plugged into a GFCI receptacle. He said no, that he removed the GFCI because the instructions said to put it on a NON GFCI circuit. RED FLAG #2

I tried to explain to him that the mfg knew there was leakage current or they wouldn't have said not to use a GFCI. His only reply was "the machine is sold all over the world, took me 2 months to get it, and cost $4000." I told him none of that mattered and most likely the machine wasn't listed with a proper testing agency. Anyway, he wants me to come and check it out. Given the fact that no GFCI is supposed to be used, I don't know of anything I can do other than go and collect his money for a service call!
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If the manufacturer spec says not to put it on a GFCI then doesn't that mean not to put it on one? I'm currently installing a steam shower and it specifically says do not put on a GFCI, when my inclination was to GFCI protect it since it's in a bathroom. (First one I've done)

I understand removing a GFCI to plug his unit in is a no, but can't a dedicated line be ran to a single outlet to satisfy that requirement? If after that he gets shocked it could be some other strange occurrence.

I once had a customer call to say every time he touches his range he gets shocked. I eventually crawled up into the attic and saw where a handyman installed LED recess wafer lights and never used connectors. When he stripped the wire he must have nicked the wires and it was sending a tiny bit of voltage through the ground without tripping anything. It was odd to me because I sure enough got voltage on the metal of the range and in fact multiple other appliances. As soon as I properly connected all of the lights and installed connectors, not more shocking.

What if the problem isn't the machine but is some other problem?
 
Daolin said:
If the manufacturer spec says not to put it on a GFCI then doesn't that mean not to put it on one? I'm currently installing a steam shower and it specifically says do not put on a GFCI, when my inclination was to GFCI protect it since it's in a bathroom. (First one I've done)

I understand removing a GFCI to plug his unit in is a no, but can't a dedicated line be ran to a single outlet to satisfy that requirement? If after that he gets shocked it could be some other strange occurrence.

I once had a customer call to say every time he touches his range he gets shocked. I eventually crawled up into the attic and saw where a handyman installed LED recess wafer lights and never used connectors. When he stripped the wire he must have nicked the wires and it was sending a tiny bit of voltage through the ground without tripping anything. It was odd to me because I sure enough got voltage on the metal of the range and in fact multiple other appliances. As soon as I properly connected all of the lights and installed connectors, not more shocking.

What if the problem isn't the machine but is some other problem?
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That range is not properly grounded. Was it also wired by the handyman?
 
Daolin said:
If the manufacturer spec says not to put it on a GFCI then doesn't that mean not to put it on one? I'm currently installing a steam shower and it specifically says do not put on a GFCI, when my inclination was to GFCI protect it since it's in a bathroom. (First one I've done)

I understand removing a GFCI to plug his unit in is a no, but can't a dedicated line be ran to a single outlet to satisfy that requirement? If after that he gets shocked it could be some other strange occurrence.

I once had a customer call to say every time he touches his range he gets shocked. I eventually crawled up into the attic and saw where a handyman installed LED recess wafer lights and never used connectors. When he stripped the wire he must have nicked the wires and it was sending a tiny bit of voltage through the ground without tripping anything. It was odd to me because I sure enough got voltage on the metal of the range and in fact multiple other appliances. As soon as I properly connected all of the lights and installed connectors, not more shocking.

What if the problem isn't the machine but is some other problem?
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Manufacturer's instructions can ADD requirements that are not in the NEC, but they cannot SUBTRACT them. As an EC, you are required to follow the NEC.
 
Daolin said:
If the manufacturer spec says not to put it on a GFCI then doesn't that mean not to put it on one? I'm currently installing a steam shower and it specifically says do not put on a GFCI, when my inclination was to GFCI protect it since it's in a bathroom. (First one I've done)

I understand removing a GFCI to plug his unit in is a no, but can't a dedicated line be ran to a single outlet to satisfy that requirement? If after that he gets shocked it could be some other strange occurrence.



What if the problem isn't the machine but is some other problem?
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Running a dedicated line into an area that requires GFCI would solve nothing. I stick by my assertion that the mfg is aware of leakage current and that's why they state not to use GFCI protection. Why else would they say that?
 
Little Bill said:
Running a dedicated line into an area that requires GFCI would solve nothing. I stick by my assertion that the mfg is aware of leakage current and that's why they state not to use GFCI protection. Why else would they say that?
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Agreed. This is why the value added is to help protect the customer, putting the liability back on the manufacturer, while taking the customers money.
 
I have a personality that would make it hard for me not to help someone. Especially if they have been a regular customer. However, in a case like this, I would have the difficult conversation. It’s a good opportunity to communicate honestly and set appropriate boundaries. Let your regular customer know that you won’t be any part of a dangerous code violating project. You will have spoken the truth and it’s his choice if he wants to hear it. You may lose a customer, but you will sleep better.


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