How would YOU handle this. Electrician that ain't one.....

[fastline]

Was looking at pictures of an install in another state where the homeowner paid thousands for a couple sub panels to be installed. The guy doing the work apparently holds a master license, and I have no idea how he got one! Here is a basic punch list, but not all of it.
1. NM run underground in conduit
2. 60A breaker on main feeds first sub, then double tapped on main lug with 10-2NM to feed second panel.
3. First sub bonding screw removed, but ground and neutral plugged into neutral bar no ground bar. (bonded)
4. the 10-2 feeding second panel is 240V only, yet tapped sub2 with 12-2 and breaker for 120V, using ground as neutral.
5. Sub 2 is bonded. Again, no ground bar.
6. no ground rods
7. List continues to smaller things like wire stripped too far back, wire not marked correctly, etc.

The most unsafe thing here is that 10-2 is protected only with a 60A breaker. I am honestly just wondering how this guy has a license?????

 

[Little Bill]

@fastline
Would you please update your profile to include your occupation?

 

[fastline]

@fastline
Would you please update your profile to include your occupation?

Done. I thought it was in there. I primarily work in industrial automation.

 

[letgomywago]

Sounds like someone who doesn't care or doesn't actually have a license and instead "borrowed" someone else's or just made it up that they are a "master electrician"

 

[letgomywago]

If this was an ac or motor then 60a cb on 10 may be correct but unlikely since there's a whole lot wrong going here

 

[__dan]

My first guess is the homeowner did the work himself and made up the story about having a licensed guy do it.

What would I do. I would have an obligation to do what my contract says, in theory, the agreement with what the homeowner wants done.

Second guess is he is not hiring me to fix everything. Usually they would have in their minds "it is already wired (I just want you to tweak it)".

If the homeowner does nothing to dissuade me guesses one and two are correct, I would call it a good day if I could walk away cleanly. In the unlikely instance the homeowner can interest me in a third guess and I still feel his word is good, I might try testing him at his word.

 

[fastline]

As I understand, the homeowner on this one hired for a turnkey project. This is not a homeowner project gone sideways. Now, I will say, I've not been there or met with anyone. I just found the pics astounding! This is basic residential work!

But I do hear that whole "I did the work, just need you to look over it" thing....lol I did not gather this was anything like. Homeowner is pi**ed he has to get involved. Just wanted a job done and it appears to be not safe. To make it worse, there is no main breaker on the sub2 panel so that #10 wire can be easily overloaded. Nothing to protect it!

I just want to know who this guy is because there is ZERO way he is an electrician, regardless of what paper he is hiding behind. I just want to know how it happened. Using a false name comes to mind!

 

[fastline]

Should also mention that apparently the homeowner (who is apparently smarter than the electrician) mentioned the use of ground in the NM cable as a neutral and his response was "they are the same thing"........ shi* you not..... Again, I wasn't there, but.....I sure wish I was!!!

 

[Little Bill]

Done. I thought it was in there. I primarily work in industrial automation.

Thank you!
The Forum lost that info when we went to the new platform.

 

[Hv&Lv]

As I understand, the homeowner on this one hired for a turnkey project. This is not a homeowner project gone sideways. Now, I will say, I've not been there or met with anyone. I just found the pics astounding! This is basic residential work!

But I do hear that whole "I did the work, just need you to look over it" thing....lol I did not gather this was anything like. Homeowner is pi**ed he has to get involved. Just wanted a job done and it appears to be not safe. To make it worse, there is no main breaker on the sub2 panel so that #10 wire can be easily overloaded. Nothing to protect it!

I just want to know who this guy is because there is ZERO way he is an electrician, regardless of what paper he is hiding behind. I just want to know how it happened. Using a false name comes to mind!

Who inspected the job? Ask him why he passed it.
Who cashed the check from the HO? That should give you a name or start a fraud case.
Most, if not all states have a way anyone can verify a license with the licensing board. Ask the HO to check the license or you check it.

There is something else going on besides an crappy electrician.

 

[fastline]

Who inspected the job? Ask him why he passed it.
Who cashed the check from the HO? That should give you a name or start a fraud case.
Most, if not all states have a way anyone can verify a license with the licensing board. Ask the HO to check the license or you check it.

There is something else going on besides an crappy electrician.

Firmly agree. This goes way beyond having a bad day, this guy obviously doesn't know what he's doing. Apparently he is 50s, and per the name, I guess the HO checked online and verified this certain name does have a license. The HO has not paid anything yet and had the guy out to discuss his work, but he then doubled down and defending it!

Take it further, I guess the HO reached out to the inspector and they don't permit or inspect anything other than the home, so I guess wild west area. HO asked about having NM underground and inspector said no problem. So you can see where this is going. No one cares.

 

[NoahsArc]

It's in West Virginia if that makes the situation any clearer to anyone.
"electrician" didn't know what THWN was.
It's a doozy.

 

[tortuga]

Was looking at pictures of an install in another state where the homeowner paid thousands for a couple sub panels to be installed. The guy doing the work apparently holds a master license,

What state ?
Can you post a few picts?

 

[fastline]

It's in West Virginia if that makes the situation any clearer to anyone.
"electrician" didn't know what THWN was.
It's a doozy.

I'd rather not "cross streams" as I might be over stepping a bit talking about the HO over here. I was trying to keep it a bit anonymous. I think my main concern in this one is how this guy has a license, or does he? Fraud maybe? Maybe using a family member's name or something. It's just really odd. Literally claiming to be a pro mechanic, yet don't know what a torque wrench is.

 

[tortuga]

I was trying to keep it a bit anonymous. I think my main concern in this one is how this guy has a license, or does he? Fraud maybe?

Ok if you want to stay anonymous but at least tell us what state this is in ?

 

[NoahsArc]

Ok if you want to stay anonymous but at least tell us what state this is in ?

WV

 

[Hv&Lv]

It's in West Virginia if that makes the situation any clearer to anyone.
"electrician" didn't know what THWN was.
It's a doozy.

I’m confused.. are you with @fastline?
His says midwest, yours says illinois..

Or you guys looking at the same pictures?

 

[CoolWill]

A license doesn't really mean a whole lot. I've known many licensed electricians who never worked in the field. Some people are good at taking tests.. Us licensed guys like to thump our chests like we're king chit, but the reality is, you're the same electrician the day after you get your license as you were the day before.

 

[Fred B]

A license doesn't really mean a whole lot. I've known many licensed electricians who never worked in the field. Some people are good at taking tests.. Us licensed guys like to thump our chests like we're king chit, but the reality is, you're the same electrician the day after you get your license as you were the day before.

I've seen the guy who advertises as a licensed electrician. He has a drivers license.

 

[fastline]

A license doesn't really mean a whole lot. I've known many licensed electricians who never worked in the field. Some people are good at taking tests.. Us licensed guys like to thump our chests like we're king chit, but the reality is, you're the same electrician the day after you get your license as you were the day before.

I'm confident this guy could never pass the test. I mean, juice 101 teaches you the difference between ground and neutral, doing a mental check that conductors have the right current protection. But #10 Cu on a 60A? Nah....

Wondering if there was a way back in the day to get grandfathered or something.

People make mistakes, but usually not 50 on a single basic job. It reeks!

I don't like seeing people scammed. Last one I can recall, one of these big "do it all" outfits sent a guy to an elderly couple because water pump was not working right. I work with them and questioned the diagnosis anyway. But I guess the worker worked up a special scam for him that he would return on the weekend and moonlight the job for less $. Then brought over his kids to dig a 6" trench and direct bury NM as the 240V branch to the pump. That company owner got my call on Monday when I heard about it. "Make it very right or I will make it rain" is all I told him. Scamming the elderly is switch for me. Guy is a vet with medical issues.