How would you...?

[chris kennedy]

This is a Cam-Lock box that only opens in the front. The Cam-Locks are on a hinged plate.

I have 3 sets of four 300's and a 1/0 EGC run 100' in PVC to terminate to this.

How will the hinged door open and close with twelve 300's and three 1/0 attached? I have 5 inches from the back of the studs to the back of the enclosure.

[ATTACH714/ATTACH]

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[mdshunk]

Looks like a job for DLO cable?

Better you than me. That's gonna be a real treat. Poor design, for sure. Maybe even the wrong panel for the application?

 

[chris kennedy]

Looks like a job for DLO cable?

What are DLO cables?

 

[mdshunk]

What are DLO cables?

I said that sorta tongue in cheek, because there isn't too many legal ways to use DLO cable in an NEC install. It's super flexible wire, sorta like welding lead wire. It would work well for your install, but might not be legal. I'm just not sure. Is there room anywhere in that box for even a bit of slack? Any room below it for an empty enclosure to contain a bit of slack? I'm still scratching my head over how they expect you to use that enclosure.

 

[chris kennedy]

there isn't too many legal ways to use DLO cable in an NEC install. It's super flexible wire, sorta like welding lead wire.

I would love to polaris to welding cable but the only NEC reference is 630.41.

The real problem I see here is the torque can't be checked after the terminations are bent or twisted while closing the door.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Some DLO is also listed as RHH or RHW making it code legal. One issue is the termination of fine stranded cables with mechanical lugs or terminations. They need to be listed for the purpose.
As far as welding cable I know that the NEC and the listing of the cable says that you can't use welding cable for power applications. I am not sure why. I did some research a few years ago on welding cable and Type W power cable that were both made by the same manufacturer. In this case there was only one difference between the cables...the insulation thickness. The number of strands, strand construction and insulation type were identical, but the insulation on the welding cable was 25% thicker than that of the Type W power cable. I needed to make a quick hook up of a temporary transformer for an industrial plant and the Type W was not available in the area, so I used the welding cable. To avoid any termination issues we used crimp on terminations.
Don

 

[chris kennedy]

Some DLO is also listed as RHH or RHW making it code legal. Type W was not available in the area, so I used the welding cable.

Don I'm looking at specs for type W from www.houwire.com. Problem is I don't see type W in 310.16 or tables 8 or 9. How would this be NEC compliant?

 

[480sparky]

Type W is in Table 400.4.
UL White Book QPMU.

 

[iwire]

Chris I only see two options and both are hard.

1) Use the type W.

Land your 3 sets of 300s into power distribution blocks mounted in the cabinet and go from there to the cam locs with type W. Check table 400.5(B) for the ampacity of W.

2) Forget the W and modify the enclosure, make the back or side removable.

There is no way in heck you will be able to terminal 12 - 300s on that hinged door and still swing it shut.


Better you then me....

 

[chris kennedy]

Type W is in Table 400.4.
UL White Book QPMU.

Thanks Ken, I see it used in UL approved assemblies (Lake Shore Electric ATS's) but with no NEC reference might be hard to slide by AHJ.

 

[chris kennedy]

Chris I only see two options and both are hard.

1) Use the type W.

Land your 3 sets of 300s into power distribution blocks mounted in the cabinet and go from there to the cam locs with type W. Check table 400.5(B) for the ampacity of W.

2) Forget the W and modify the enclosure, make the back or side removable.

There is no way in heck you will be able to terminal 12 - 300s on that hinged door and still swing it shut.


Better you then me....

I see said the blind man!

Never thought to look in 400. I always think 400 Cords.

Thats not that hard but as Don pointed out, I'll have to see if polaris is rated for type W.

Thanks all.(thought I was going to have to change my signature for a second there!)

 

[iwire]

Never thought to look in 400. I always think 400 Cords.

Article 400 flexible cords and cables, we would not be talking about W in this thread if it was not flexible.

I'll have to see if polaris is rated for type W.

Not sure if they are listed for W but they work.

Get them just a touch oversize or you will never get all the strands into the connector......or at least that is what I heard.

 

[chris kennedy]

Article 400 flexible cords and cables, we would not be talking about W in this thread if it was not flexible.



Not sure if they are listed for W but they work.

Get them just a touch oversize or you will never get all the strands into the connector......or at least that is what I heard.

I appears I need 3/0 Type W in 3 parallels to give me 800 amps. So I would use a polaris for two 300's.

The EGC is the one closes to the hinge. I'm thinking I could take 1/0 THWN right to the stud without too much concern about loosing torque. Any one agree or disagree?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Chris I only see two options and both are hard.

1) Use the type W.

Land your 3 sets of 300s into power distribution blocks mounted in the cabinet and go from there to the cam locs with type W. Check table 400.5(B) for the ampacity of W.

2) Forget the W and modify the enclosure, make the back or side removable.There is no way in heck you will be able to terminal 12 - 300s on that hinged door and still swing it shut.


Better you then me....

This install seems to have put you in between a rock and a hard place.

1. Is the unit a listed product? As an inspector, when I see an unusual install like this, I look for the label.

I would contact the manufacturer and see if there is an alternate type enclosure, or if they have any suggestions as how to terminate this. I can tell you that in my experience, speaking to a manufacturer rep will also help you determine if this unit is listed for the install.

I will add that something with this install just does not sit right with me..........

 

[chris kennedy]

1. Is the unit a listed product? As an inspector, when I see an unusual install like this, I look for the label.

This unit was custom built for us as per PE specs. The specs are vague as there is no mention of the hinge.

 

[iwire]

1. Is the unit a listed product? As an inspector, when I see an unusual install like this, I look for the label.

Do you only accept listed products?

What code section requires a cabinet to be listed?