HVAC Contractors

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resistance said:
Wow, what a mix!

I'm sure most smaller HVAC companies are fly-by in our area.
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Yea .. I moved up here from California a few years ago after over 15 years of doing it all from HVAC to re-wires down there and hired on at a HVAC contractor on the penninsula to find out we couldn't even change out the breaker under his license as HVAC. So I had him let me get my 01 journeyman and 01 admin so he could get his ele cont liscense and would not have to wait for a job to be finished waiting for an electrical contractor to do the "little stuff". We don't advertise as electrical contractor so I havn't been able to do much other than the related electrical work for a while. The closest I get is when we are installing stand by generators. Then I can get close to real electrical work.
 
NJ per UCC:
HVAC cond. unit must be wired by EC. New work, replacements.
Furnace can be done by non-EC's, as boiler units.

Pending legislation will allow HVAC contractors to wire cond. units from disco to unit; BUT not install any feefers. However, to do so..they will be required to obtain a HVAC Contractor Lic. (State). This is in the 'set-up' stages presently, and will be implemented by the powers that be ???

:smile:
 
In AZ they seem to do the easy stuff themselves and call us for the stuff they don't want to do.

LEGALLY I am not sure what they can do. I suspect it is limited to whips, discos etc. I know they can only run limeted natural gas piping (6' I believe). That leads me to believe that they are limited as far as electrical.
 
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Around here some of the larger HVAC companies have electricians on staff. The company I work for actually does work regularly with 5 or 6 different smaller HVAC companies. Usually we do all of the high voltage, they do most of the low volt controls, although sometimes we do that as well. On occasion if it is just an even swap out of a unit then they will shut off the disconnect and replace/wire the unit themselves, I am not sure what is legally allowed in MA. I'm pretty sure the only thing you can do legally without pulling a permit is change a light bulb, in that case changing/wiring an HVAC unit would require a permit, and since the HVAC contractor wouldn't be the homeowner (usually) they would need at least a journeyman's to pull the permit.
 
The reason for the question, is that I'm interested in 'whoring' myself out to a local unlicensed central NJ HVAC contractor.

Currently I'm in Building Management, but I was thinking of becoming an 'on the books' employee (moonlighting) with a contractor for extra $$$$$.

Please don't condemn me for my thoughts. Any positive input would be appreciated.

Jim
 
Since you opened yourself up to ridicule, then so will I. IMO, I say, go for it, for now. You will gain much more then money. You will be posed situations and difficulties in installation that you will never see in Building Management. And that's okay, because each unique situation will bring new solutions.

Stick to the code. Even though this guy is unlicensed, don't work like a hack. No short cuts. And if you don't know a particular about the code, ask. Learn all you can, at HIS expense. Nothing like it.

Lastly, do all you can to prompt him into becoming legal. :cool:
 
MinuteMan, I've done my time in the trenches, 13 years as an HVAC installer, serviceman, and then service manager. This is where I gained my license. I wired units, service changes, t-stats and trouble shot most anything, including appliances.

I'm now in the commercial building management, everything from plunging toilets to top notch computer control systems.

I realize what I'd be getting into going back to residential. Thanks for the reminder (there were good time and a lot of bad times).

Jim
 
jmd445 said:
When dealing with HVAC contractors, not new construction, do find them wiring the units themselves, or do you usually see them sub-contracting the work?
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Here's how it works here, with the contractors we work with. I can't speak for others in town. I'm sure a lot of the guys just do it themselves.

We bring power to the unit (furnace, cond., heat pump, etc) and wire it in after it is set. We supply and pull LV wire from furnaces to cond., HVAC hooks it in, both ends. We supply and pull therm from furnace to therm location, HVAC hooks it in, both ends.

We run our LV in seperate sealtite to the outside unit, once it's outside, even though, apparently, being a part of the same system they could legally be in the same conduit as long as the insulation was the same. That's just habit, I guess. It just seems like they should be seperated. We pull 18/3 or 18/5 to outside units, depending on what they are. Some of the new ones (the HVAC guy tells me) use three conductors, the heat pumps can use up to 5. (If I'm wrong in the last sentence, it's just bad info from an HVAC guy!)
 
jerm said:
We pull 18/3 or 18/5 to outside units, depending on what they are. Some of the new ones (the HVAC guy tells me) use three conductors, the heat pumps can use up to 5. (If I'm wrong in the last sentence, it's just bad info from an HVAC guy!)
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I've never encountered a plain condensing unit that required an 18/3. What would the 3rd wire be for? :confused:
 
stickboy1375 said:
Is this commercial ? I've never run low voltage wire in sealtite before.
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I always run the LV in liquid tight to protect it form the weed wacker, dog, rodents, weather. I've seen too many Lv chewed up outside by any of these not to do it that way.
 
peter d said:
I've never encountered a plain condensing unit that required an 18/3. What would the 3rd wire be for? :confused:
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On Carrier Infinity or Bryant Evolution systems you need 4 wires -- power +, power -, data +, data -. These have a whole communications protocol over the data lines so the thermostat knows what you've got and what it is doing. It is also possible there is an outside air thermostat/switch/sensor. That would require 1 or 2 wires in addition to the two normal ones.

I ran 18-7 for my Bryant Evolution heat pump only to have the installer say they only needed 4 wires. Wish they would have told me in advance that this system uses 4 wires for everything -- heat pump, AC, air handler, just about anything they attach to the system.
 
PeterD, most condensing units only require an 18/2. My past company always ran extra for possible future failure. Especially in a 3-story interior condo, with the LV and line sets run in walls and a customer damages the conductor, luckly you had a spare.

Jim
 
HVAC Contractors

I have seen many HVAC Contractors in VA do their own electrical installations. This usually occurs on small jobs. The workmanship is usually very sloppy but it saves them $$$$$. I do not like it nor is it really legal but it happens.
 
suemarkp said:
On Carrier Infinity or Bryant Evolution systems you need 4 wires -- power +, power -, data +, data -. These have a whole communications protocol over the data lines so the thermostat knows what you've got and what it is doing. It is also possible there is an outside air thermostat/switch/sensor. That would require 1 or 2 wires in addition to the two normal ones.
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Thanks for the info, I have not encountered any high tech HVAC equipment like that yet. But when I do I'll be ready. :)
 
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