Hydro tub

[marc deschenes]

I wired a hydro massage tub , the directions called for an" individual branch rated at 20 amps 125 volts" Which I ran and I also installed a single receptacle 20 amp 125 volt . When the tub was ready to be plugged in, it had a 15 amp 125 volt attachment plug. So I removed the original receptacle and replaced it with a 15/20 amp 125 volt single receptacle. I think this is a violation ,it is an individual branch circuit . I don't understand why they would demand a 20 amp circuit then supply a 15 amp attachment plug?

What do you folks think??

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Hydro tub

Why did you remove the 20 amp receptacle ? You were code compliant now you are not.Hope you have gfci breaker.

The cord would have pluged in just fine.The requirement for 20 amp dedicated might well be because it uses 50% of the circuit.

[ August 27, 2005, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Hydro tub

Put in a duplex 15 amp receptacle and forget about it

 

[pierre]

Re: Hydro tub

The reason is:
210.21
"(B) Receptacles.
(1) Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit.
A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit.

Exception No. 1: A receptacle installed in accordance with 430.81(C).

Exception No. 2: A receptacle installed exclusively for the use of a cord-and-plug-connected arc welder shall be permitted
to have an ampere rating not less than the minimum branch-circuit conductor ampacity determined by 630.11(A) for arc welders.

FPN: See definition of receptacle in Article 100.

[ August 27, 2005, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: pierre ]

 

[augie47]

Re: Hydro tub

where did you find a 20 amp 125 v single recept that won't accept a 15 amp plug?

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Hydro tub

My guess is that he installed wrong single outlet,perhaps a 240 volt one.We all know a 15 amp plug will fit a 15 or 20 amp receptacle

[ August 27, 2005, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]

 

[infinity]

Re: Hydro tub

where did you find a 20 amp 125 v single recept that won't accept a 15 amp plug?

According to the chart in the 2005 handbook there is a NEMA 5ALT-20R receptacle which is a 125 volt 20 amp only device. Sounds very expensive.

 

[marc deschenes]

Re: Hydro tub

The original device may have been wrong voltage. But can you put a dual rated receptacle on an individual branch circuit ?

[ August 28, 2005, 12:07 AM: Message edited by: marc deschenes ]

 

[pierre]

Re: Hydro tub

210.21(B)(1) permits a 20 ampere rated single receptacle to be installed on either a 15 amp or 20 amp individual rated branch circuit.

A 15 ampere rated single receptacle is not permitted on a 20 ampere rated branch ckt.

A 15 ampere rated duplex receptacle is permitted to be installed on a 20 ampere rated branch circuit [210.21(B)(3)].

 

[marc deschenes]

Re: Hydro tub

Pierre, Here is the problem . An individual branch circuit does not serve a device ,it serves a piece of utilization equipment . The single receptacle is required to have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit.

The device installed does in fact have a rating less than that of the branch circuit , it also has one equal to it .

I don't understand why the manufacturer demands an individual branch circuit rated at 20 amps then employs a 15 amp rated attachment plug ? This does not make sense to me.
I plan on checking the supply house tomorrow to see if they carry a strictly 20 amp 125 volt single receptacle , I checked my van and could not find the original.

Pierre, I don't think 210.21.b allows an individual branch ciruit rated at 15 amps to supply a single 20 amp receptacle.

[ August 28, 2005, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: marc deschenes ]

 

[pierre]

Re: Hydro tub

Marc
NEMA 5-20R receptacle will take a 15 or 20 ampere rated attachment plug.

NEMA 5ALT-20R receptacle will ONLY take a 20 ampere rated attachment plug.


"Pierre, I don't think 210.21.b allows an individual branch ciruit rated at 15 amps to supply a single 20 amp receptacle."

A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating NOT LESS THAN that of the branch circuit.

so, you could install a 20 amp rated single receptacle on a 15 ampere rated branch circuit.

not necessaryily a great design, yet it is permitted.

[ August 28, 2005, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: pierre ]

 

[marc deschenes]

Re: Hydro tub

Pierre, it is common to use a single receptacle on a circuit that has mutiple receptacles on it . This is an individual branch circuit.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Hydro tub

"I plan on checking the supply house tomorrow to see if they carry a strictly 20 amp 125 volt single receptacle , I checked my van and could not find the original. "

Why not just use a standard 125 volt single 20 amp receptacle.They will take that 15 amp plug just fine .Big orange sells them.If that plug didn't fit then my guess is you installed a 240 volt single without looking at the box.Sometimes we get in a hurry and grab the wrong ones.Guys at supply houses often screw up,caught them trying to pass a 240 off a few times.

 

[pierre]

Re: Hydro tub

"Pierre, it is common to use a single receptacle on a circuit that has mutiple receptacles on it . This is an individual branch circuit."

Read the definition of Individual Branch Circuit in Art 100.

 

[marc deschenes]

Re: Hydro tub

Jim , I did end up useing the dual configuration single receptacle. I'm not sure it meets the letter of the law is all. I am not expecting any problems . having said that , this receptacle does have a rating less than that of the branch circuit and I 'm not sure that this meets the requirements of the N.E.C.

 

[marc deschenes]

Re: Hydro tub

Pierre, I have , what is your point?

 

[marc deschenes]

Re: Hydro tub

Pirre said: "A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating NOT LESS THAN that of the branch circuit.

so, you could install a 20 amp rated single receptacle on a 15 ampere rated branch circuit.

not necessaryily a great design, yet it is permitted".


Does this mean you can wire a 30 or 50 or 60 amp receptacle on an individual branch rated at 15 amps ?

I'm not sure that, " not less than " means can be greater than.

 

[infinity]

Re: Hydro tub

Marc,

Pierre is correct, although I must say that I don't agree with it. IMO a 20 amp single receptacle should be required to be on a 20 amp circuit, however as Pierre has noted it is not required.

 

[iwire]

Re: Hydro tub

Marc in my opinion it makes more sense when you think about larger circuits.

Say you have a portable machine to feed cord and plug.

The minimum circuit ampacity for this machine is 65 amps.

That would mean you are stuck using a 100 amp receptacle, however there would be no reason to use more than a 70 amp breaker with 6 AWG CU conductors to feed this 100 amp receptacle.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Hydro tub

Marc,if you installed a dual amperage receptacle then the receptacle will say 20 amps.It takes either a 20 amp or 15 amp plug.It is the one with the sideways T.If you put this 12-2 circuit on a 20 amp gfci breaker and installed this single receptacle then you are code compliant and met the mfg. requirements.Bond the motor to water line and job finished.