Hydromassage Bathtubs

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dao257

Member
Under 680.74 it says the following:
All metal piping systems, metal parts of electrical equipment, and pump motors associated with the hydromassage tub shall be bonded together using a copper bonding jumper, insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG solid.

My question is:
Can I use #4 stranded?
 
S

speedypetey

Senior Member
Location
Hudson Valley, NY
Re: Hydromassage Bathtubs

In 680.26 they are very specific about solid.
They are not that specific in 680.74, #4 stranded is fine. If it will fit under the lug on the motor. They are pretty small.
 
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jimwalker

Senior Member
Location
TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Hydromassage Bathtubs

It says not smaller than #8 that means # 8 ok#6 ok #4 ok it is refering to awg they never walked away from it being solid
#6 stranded does not replace #6 solid
You can use larger solid wire is all it is saying,
Let me ask you this ,could you cut #4 stranded with a butter knife ( sure one strand at a time)
now cut solid

[ January 06, 2004, 12:02 AM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
ryan_618

ryan_618

Senior Member
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Hydromassage Bathtubs

Jim: Stranded is perfectly fine. Read my post at Joe Tedesco's site and find that the NFPA backed what I am saying through written correspondence.
 
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jimwalker

Senior Member
Location
TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Hydromassage Bathtubs

Ryan ,thanks will do that.
Im just reading it as written in 02 NEC.And it would indicate solid only.Always gets me that with 700 pages that they leave us so many questions.
 
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dao257

Member
Re: Hydromassage Bathtubs

As you said so many pages and were still left in the dark at times. If someone would post a link to the article at Tedesco's site...it would be appreciated.
 
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bennie

Esteemed Member
Re: Hydromassage Bathtubs

The reason for solid conductor being required for pools, hydro-massage, and similiar equipment, is due to the corrosive deterioration and destruction by the various chemicals in the water.

A stranded conductor will be destroyed faster than a solid one.

The words, of the section can be played with, but the intent is chiseled in stone.

[ January 06, 2004, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: bennie ]
 
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gregory

Senior Member
Re: Hydromassage Bathtubs

680.74 says that you must use a wire as large as number 8 solid. It does not say that you have to use solid, number 8 stranded is larger than number 8 solid so you can use number 8 stranded. Table 8 in chapter nine gives solid & stranded 16,510 circular mils. both are equal. the diameter of solid of course is smaller.
 
ryan_618

ryan_618

Senior Member
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Hydromassage Bathtubs

Grogory: You are 100% correct.

Bennie: The wording of the code is what I am required to enforce or permit...as it is adopted as law in my state. I can not give a formal interpretation as I am not the NFPA. As far as who wrote the letter, I'm not sure, Pierre was the one who recieved it.

Dana: Pierre very well may have lost teh letter, but the fact that he was arguing against me then recieved a letter and came back with a 180 degree turn of opinion leads me to believe that the letter was written.
 
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pierre

Senior Member
Location
Westchester County, New York
Re: Hydromassage Bathtubs

The letter was written in response to a question I emailed in to the NFPA, because Ryan's stirring the pot :D made me want to know. The response was written by Jeff Sargent, who I have a tremendous amount of respect for. Remember he has resources available to him we cannot even begin to wish for.
I will find the letter.

Basically the letter says that larger than solid 8 AWG is permitted to be stranded for a jacuzzi, because chlorine is not as large a threat at a jacuzzi as it is for pools.

How many of you have seen readily available 6AWG or larger solid conductors?

Pierre
 
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bennie

Esteemed Member
Re: Hydromassage Bathtubs

Why have the word solid?

Home Depot has a bunch of #6 and #4 cu solid.

Different subject but for credibility purposes.

Mr. Sargent informed me that 3/32 of an inch at each end of a receptacle is sufficient area of a sheetrock wall, to provide secure mounting of the device.

[ January 06, 2004, 06:30 PM: Message edited by: bennie ]
 
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jimwalker

Senior Member
Location
TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Hydromassage Bathtubs

Then why did they even mention SOLID
I am not saying i don't agree that it is equal i am saying NEC said SOLID

[ January 06, 2004, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
ryan_618

ryan_618

Senior Member
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Hydromassage Bathtubs

Jim: The english language just isn't that difficult.

I wil write the same sentance twice and change the meaning with the insertion of a comma.

....not smaller than number 8 solid.
.... ,not smaller than number 8, solid.

The second sentance backs you up.
The first sentance backs me up. Guess what? The first sentance is the one that appears in 680.74

[ January 06, 2004, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: ryan_618 ]
 
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