Hydromassage Tub

Status
Not open for further replies.
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I received this PM from a new member. I thought it better out here for all of us to see.

embryo3 said:
I am replacing a standard tub with a spa tub and have a receptacle located on the wall under the tub. Cord connected (3' cord) as disconnecting means and GFCI breaker installed on the circuit. To get to the receptacle you have to access it from an access panel on the adjacent wall (very hard to get to) is this and acceptable installation based on current NEC 680.IV?
Click to expand...
 
I say nothing wrong with the installation and that nothing in 680 even applies to what is being asked.

The receptacle needs to be accessible, but does not need to be readily accessible.


Some will say if it is a GFCI receptacle, it needs to be readily accessible because of a change in 210.8 in 2011 NEC. I say nothing in 210.8 applies to a hydromassage tub and it can still be located within the mechanical area of the tub like many of us have done for years.
 
kwired said:
Some will say if it is a GFCI receptacle, it needs to be readily accessible because of a change in 210.8 in 2011 NEC. I say nothing in 210.8 applies to a hydromassage tub and it can still be located within the mechanical area of the tub like many of us have done for years.
Click to expand...

It isn't because of 210.8 -- look at 680.71 in the 2008 NEC
 
Which code cycle is he working under? (680 VII) In the 2011, 680.73 was changed to restrict the location of the receptacle to within 1 foot of the opening and facing the opening. IMO, in the 2008 cycle, as long as 680.73 is met, and he doesn't have to tear anything up, he is okay. (as long as it is an individual circuit as you pointed out. 680.71)
 
Last edited:
Dennis Alwon said:
It isn't because of 210.8 -- look at 680.71 in the 2008 NEC
Click to expand...

I see that was a change in 2008 NEC and have to admit I may have gotten away with GFCI in an non readily accessible space a few times since that went into effect.

It is also not covered by part IV as was asked. My answer to the question remains "nothing wrong with the install as it is presented".
 
Hv&Lv said:
Which code cycle is he working under? (680 VII) In the 2011, 680.73 was changed to restrict the location of the receptacle to within 1 foot of the opening and facing the opening. IMO, in the 2008 cycle, as long as 680.73 is met, and he doesn't have to tear anything up, he is okay. (as long as it is an individual circuit as you pointed out. 680.71)
Click to expand...

Wasn't aware of that change either. But would likely comply with it anyway with most of my installations. I wish those units would be designed to be hard wired to a certain extent as it is not always easy to find a place to put a receptacle.

The only good thing about being cord and plug connected, especially if no GFCI recep is allowed in the space is using the cord and plug as a disconnecting means.
 
We have for years used blank face GFCI devices feeding a receptacle under the tub just to make it easy for the HO to reset it if it ever trips, but I question whether or not a GFCI receptacle under a tub that is located behind a removable or hinged door is not considered Readily Accessible if it is designed for access, not talking about a screwed in place cover that would resort to tools, just a easily removable cover like they have on the side of some of these tubs?

so which of these definitions fits the best:\

Accessible (as applied to wiring methods). Capable of
being removed or exposed without damaging the building
structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure
or finish of the building.
Click to expand...

Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible). Capable of being
reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections
without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite
to climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable
ladders, and so forth.
Click to expand...

I feel it is capable of being
reached quickly for operation if it is behind a readily removable door/cover, no different then OCPD's behind a panel cover door?
 
The problem is that many of those accesses are very hard to get to and in very inconvenient places. Sometimes screws need to be removed etc. I also use the dead front GFCI on the wall in the bath room. No issues with the code on that
 
hurk27 said:
I feel it is capable of being
reached quickly for operation if it is behind a readily removable door/cover, no different then OCPD's behind a panel cover door?
Click to expand...

But we must put into consideration of worse case scenario, say tub is in use when GFCI recept. trips under the tub, do we want the user
to be able to try and reset the GFCI recpt. while still in the tub? hopefully they are not that ignorant, i say dead front other side of room
would be best,
around here they let us use OCPD so they have to walk all the way down stairs (or garage), while soaking wet, to stand in water from not getting
dried off, in front of an energized panel, with bare feet on a concrete floor, well no problems there!
 
John120/240 said:
Usually on an adjacent wall of the bathroom. Down low or vanity height doesn't matter, she

might want to plug in a space heater. Or another option is put the GFCI in an adjacent closet.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't that be a direct voilation of 680.71?
 
Dennis Alwon said:
The problem is that many of those accesses are very hard to get to and in very inconvenient places. Sometimes screws need to be removed etc. I also use the dead front GFCI on the wall in the bath room. No issues with the code on that
Click to expand...

I didn't include screwed in covers in post 12, but I agree that many times the access is in a bed room closet with a screwed on grill or drywall or like one time it wound up in the back of a kitchen cabinet behind the lazy susan, talk about a very upset plumber when the pump failed, even seen a few that you had to access through the crawl space:rant:
 
I get the feeling some people think the GFCI needs to be within site or in same room as the tub.

Readily accessible and within site are two different things. If the branch circuit breaker is GFCI type that should be acceptable location for the GFCI. 240.24(A) says overcurrent devices shall be readily accessible.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top