I could be wrong

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iwire said:
If they are 20 with two or three kids that just proves the point that their priorities are all messed up.

I bet very few of these guys are making a choice between food and code books.

Whatever excuse you want to give I have heard them from the guys that work up here.

Why even make them show up as that costs them gas money?
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Bob bad choices are something we all do at some point in time.I`m not making excuses for anyone at all.But when a guy rides a bike from his house to the shop and puts in a good days work (hard) would you tell him he needs to buy a code book instead of feed his kids ???? Come on now !!!!! Maybe you`ve become to complacent in your situation.When the decision is made to stick through the dirty end of the job and strive to excell that is what this country affords all of us.But to insist that a man or woman take away from the family they are working to support is a twilight zone episode.

Not sure how you started in this trade but me I was a snot nosed kid still in H.S. And had a baby on the way.I got a job through a family friend Part time and still finished school and then went to work full time for them.Bad decision to have a kid well that wasn`t the intent but it happened.So I own up to a bad life choice.I worked with the biggest &%#$ in the world.He rode me day after day but I stayed with it.After 6 months he said IGGY (his name for me) You lasted this long and it`s time to teach you.I respect that man and all his ribbing and riding me.It made me a better person.I`ve bought guys code books that just couldn`t afford them but they had potential and I saw it so I put the $$$ out so they didn`t have to deprive thier family to excell in the trade thay found.

Let`s do some math $8.00 / hr X 40 = $320.00 / week what`s that after taxes like $245.00 or so ??? X 4 weeks = $980.00 / month - lets say - $ 500.00/ month rent = $480.00 / month - lets say $150.00 / month electric = $330.00/month and now lets use 4 people eating,what $30.00/week @ X 4 weeks and they are already in the hole for $30.00.So where do they get the money to buy a code book you think they should have when they decided to become an electrician.Sorry but I can`t see your logic in this.That type of logic is what created welfare rolls in big cities for years.

Not trying to single you out but this is a sore subject for me.I paid my dues as many of these guys have and if I was required to have a code book back them in order to keep the job . I would have had no choice but to find another trade.Maybe you should get back in touch with some of THOSE GUYS UP there.I think you have become seperated from the working world.If you take offense from what I stated I`m sorry but I feel this is a strong issue.IMHO.

To the other members of the forum I apoligize for ranting but when a subject like this is twisted and convaluted I get irate.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
I am glad that I sparked alittle fuss here,
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A couple of side questions for you my friend if I might.

How many of the students that you encounter do not have very much education?
How many do you encounter that have a hard time reading and writing?
In your honest opinion will very many of these make it as an electrician?

I have one student that attended my Continuing Education Residential Wiring class twice. Then I had him in my Code Prep class twice and now his second time in my Level I Inspectors class. The reason he has attended so many classes is the fact that he can?t read very well and he desires to hear it over and over. A friend of mine that also teaches electrical classes has had him at his school several times.

This man has been doing electrical work for many years and is trying his best to learn. I have a lot of respect for him and his desire to learn. I could stand back and tell him that he will never make it unless he learns to read or I can step up and offer my help to the best of my ability.

Which should I do?
Well I foresee a person that that will be at the top of his profession due to his desire to learn. Let me also add that his reading ability has greatly improved. He proved this to me by reading from his NEC Handbook about a question he had.

Thanks Pierre for the reminder of where I am and what my job consist of.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
If we have such a concern about a DIYer posting, I think we should respond like the law says "innocent until proven guilty"..
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That is how it works.

If a person puts electrician or something similar in their occupation field I (and I think the other mods as well) will take them at their word unless something comes along and proves otherwise.

However many people do not fill in anything or put in occupations that have nothing to do with electrical work that combined with a post that suggests they do not know the trade is going to cause the thread to be closed.

Now however we each may feel about the DIY rules here it is not a subject up for discussion.

Mike Holt has decided this is not a DIY site so that is how it is.
 
allenwayne said:
But when a guy rides a bike from his house to the shop and puts in a good days work (hard) would you tell him he needs to buy a code book instead of feed his kids ????rate.
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Allen really how many employees fit your above description?

If you have that employee give him a raise and stop trying to say that buying the tools of the trade are going to make his kids go hungry.

It's absurd.

If someone has that tight of a situation maybe they need to work a night job....I used to work a night job as an apprentice, I have had to walk to work and had I had kids you can bet I would work as many jobs as it takes.
 
Riding bikes to work

Riding bikes to work

I rode a bike all winter in Minnesota, got heckled by the people riding the bus. I made it to work when others in cars called in to say the snow was to deep. I worked full time and went to school full time. I went in to the army prior to this just to get money for schooling, books etc.

I waited to have kids until I thought I was able, think with the right head.

Still is tough to save and make ends meet but I do it. I have no cell phone I have no satelite or cable, I drive a crap car, but I am Happy and have wonder family.

I made lots of mistakes but I learned more from my mistakes then from getting it right the first time.

I think it is hard for individual who have not had kids to understand all the additional costs, medical, school, supplies, clothing.

I never did till I walked in those shoes. Woke me up.

Lets help as much as we can.
 
I didn't even have a driver's license until I was in my mid-20's.
I worked for LOTS of EC's w/o ever driving or ever being asked to.
The ONLY reason I got one was that I had to drive the employer's bucket truck - the guy with the DL (CDL)moved on.
I didn't even buy a car until I was almost 30...I didn't need/want one.
I'm sure my lack of "driving abilities" held me back - but we all make choices we must deal with.
 
iwire said:
Because we have a hypocrite posting that they do not like rude posts when their alter egos have been banned for posting rude remarks.

I believe the members have a right to know.
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iwire,
I hope that you include yourself in that quote. I have not said anything rude and yet I was just attacked. I guess the OP was on the right track!
 
discostu said:
iwire,
I hope that you include yourself in that quote. I have not said anything rude and yet I was just attacked. I guess the OP was on the right track!
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Oh give it up Bill McDowell, Marc Busig, Pipemaster, Pismo, Beavis, Butthead, or any others you have posted under.

Check out This Thread and notice how you stumbled in post 11 and had to back step to get out of it.

Roger
 
So discostu I have to ask.

discostu = This Cost You

or

discostu = Disco Stu

picture.pl
 
If any of you were paying attention to this thread, we did exactly what somebody mentioned happens all the time. It started out as we "shouldn't judge people by the questions they ask" to "they should buy a code book".

Sometimes maybe it's us that don't understand the question or try to read to much into it.

Just my opinion.
 
I would like to point out that, without someone to teach you how to use one, it is very difficult to use a code book. If I had bought a codebook when i was starting out, I wouldn't have known how to use it. I do show my helpers the codebook today, and encourage them to read mine. IMO, a brand new guy (or gal) needs tools, boots,hardhat, etc before a code book. I mean, I'm going to tell him exactly what to do (and explain why) anyway.
 
What gets me is these boys that have passed the Masters, that have been to the schools, that KNOW the Code but, give them a SMALL project and see what happens. Lose your ass and won't get called back to do another one.
I would much rather take an old school Hand that has been there and done that verses some chump that it is going to quote Code at me that has never seen it real real life. "Lets just run it in flex, Code allows it".
Might be my last post but wtf.
 
The little thread that could - holy smokes.

DIY, apprentice, j-man, master, plumber - let's just make an attempt to be at least courteous to everybody.

Chances are the ones that didn't belong didn't see the sign on the way in, or didn't think it was serious.

Edit drunken looking post
 
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willdogyou said:
What gets me is these boys that have passed the Masters, that have been to the schools, that KNOW the Code but, give them a SMALL project and see what happens. Lose your ass and won't get called back to do another one.
I would much rather take an old school Hand that has been there and done that verses some chump that it is going to quote Code at me that has never seen it real real life. "Lets just run it in flex, Code allows it".
Might be my last post but wtf.
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Boy, I'm glad that I have never had one minute of formal class room training, I might have been thought less of.
icon12.gif


Heck, I'm a high school drop out.

Roger
 
Judging from another thread I would say this may be somewhat aimed at me. ;)

willdogyou said:
What gets me is these boys that have passed the Masters, that have been to the schools, that KNOW the Code but, give them a SMALL project and see what happens. Lose your xxx and won't get called back to do another one.
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I don't have any masters, I do have 3 J-Man tickets.

I run both large and small projects, almost all came out as great money makers with customers that would be glad to have me back. :)

I would much rather take an old school Hand that has been there and done that verses some chump that it is going to quote Code at me that has never seen it real real life.
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Where did you see anyone say that knowing the actual work was not as important as knowing the rules?

"Lets just run it in flex, Code allows it".
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Yes I said something like that.

I said code allows flex, I did not say anything about doing it or not.

BTW I also never finished school, I am trained in the field and proud of it.....however knowing the NEC is just another tool I use to do my job.
 
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