I have a unique question

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Ranch said:
Part 2:

Subsequently, a final assessment forced the county to pay (with our tax dollars) the panel maker for the revisions and accept a panel with a disqualified UL listing.
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Was this settlement public record? Was it done through the courts? I would really like to see it. It sets a precedent. Historrically AHJ's have been held harmless. I have never heard of anyone being able to prove willfull neglgence if that is what it was.
 
Part 3

And the moral is:

If you are going to rebuild a UL panel in the field, you will need a subsequent UL field inspection to re-label if you want to keep it UL

Come on in and terminate, but don?t replace the wire duct with pipe when interpreting the word ?conduit?

sandsnow said:
Was this settlement public record?
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Larry ? I don?t know. Some people asked for my advice on building a case not to modify a panel. It was the UL ramifications that I brought up. It became such a hot potato I steered clear of it after the fact. Where would you find a public record on something like this?
 
Ranch said:
Part 3


Larry ? I don?t know. Some people asked for my advice on building a case not to modify a panel. It was the UL ramifications that I brought up. It became such a hot potato I steered clear of it after the fact. Where would you find a public record on something like this?
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If it was a court case, then I would guess you would start with the clerk of the court. I've never searched for public records. Like everything else with the goverment, if you don't know the secrets, it would probably be next to impossible.
 
M. D. said:
I am ,..I'm a bit of a junkie:wink:

Hey just for giggles do you know if your instructions are part of the listing and labeling?? This is always asked and no one seems to know.
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"An industrial control panel shall be provided with a complete electrical schematic wiring diagram including all components provided by the manufacturer”.

Pg 106 of the UL508A standard for safety. Interpreting this reference to "electrical schematic" needs to be expanded to installation, instructions, operation and maintenance, I am working on that.
 
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I have a unique question

iwire said:
Pride can take many forms. I do take pride in my work, that is for sure. :smile:

But I can not say I would be proud to force the spending of money just to eliminate a few (or a lot of) wire nuts in a panel just so no one would think I spliced in a panel.

I try not to make any extra splices in any location but when they are needed I do not loose any sleep over it. :smile:
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I agree with Iwire
Don't know how long you have been in business
Last time I checked wires don't stretch and splicing is the only way
I haven't been on this site in a long time but I see that Iwire is still giving good advice and knows his code
Semper Fi
 
weressl said:
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If you want to do good, use compression splices with heatshrink. They hardly take up more room than the wires themselves and cleaner looking than wire-nuts.
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Ummm... that would be butt connectors?

These, and similar, make it it a breeze (umm... hot "breeze" required :D )
 
Smart $ said:
Ummm... that would be butt connectors?

These, and similar, make it it a breeze (umm... hot "breeze" required :D )
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I don't like the preinsulated splices. You can't really inspect how ell your crimp is made. If your crimper is made specifically for the splice and it is rachet stop and release and assures the splice's completeness.

Crimp connectors and hydraulic compression tools give different quality connections. On small sizes it is probably not a significant difference. So if it is a house panel issue I would use crimp on #10-14 and the hydraulic on the main feeder #2 and larger.
 
Here is a the opinion of a guy working with the terminals.

The crimps that I see in the field are absolutely garbage for solid conductors. They lack the strength to stay tight when the conductors are manipulated.

I would (and do) use a properly installed wire nut over the typical butt splices I have used in the past.

Short of "WAGOs" (push in connectors) I would use anything other then a butt connectors with 10, 12 and 14 AWG solid conductors.
 
iwire said:
Here is a the opinion of a guy working with the terminals.

The crimps that I see in the field are absolutely garbage for solid conductors. They lack the strength to stay tight when the conductors are manipulated.

I would (and do) use a properly installed wire nut over the typical butt splices I have used in the past.

Short of "WAGOs" (push in connectors) I would use anything other then a butt connectors with 10, 12 and 14 AWG solid conductors.
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Bob:

Just out of curiousity: How many "wago" failures have you had (when properly installed)? I haven't had any in the last 4 years I've been using them. Then again, I've never seen a properly installed wirenut fail either.
 
electricguy61 said:
Bob:

Just out of curiousity: How many "wago" failures have you had (when properly installed)? I haven't had any in the last 4 years I've been using them. Then again, I've never seen a properly installed wirenut fail either.
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You have not seen a Wago failure because it is relatively new. It will be more sensitive to heat cycle failure since the spring - which it relies on to maintain the constant pressure - will eventually loose its thermal modulus and will develop a hotspot. To a lesser degree the same will occur on the wirenuts, which relies on the initial compression of the material itself to make good and multiple points of metal-to-metal connection and exclude the oxidizable surface connections. The connecting surfaces in this case will be random, unpredictable. The Wago will be much more constant. Compression splices will give you the highest pressure metal-to-metal connections in the case of hydraulic compression it actually will provide 'cold-weld' connetion, eg. molecular bonding of the two materials.

Laboratory test have shown the potential failure sequence over time wirenut-Wago-compression.

Skill and care required for proper installation would probaly be Wago-wirenut-compression from the least to the most. Improperly installed, anything will fail.
 
WAGOS have been around for at least ten if not fifteen years. It wasn't until the last few years that other manufacturers have jumped on the bandwagon.

Of course this is local experience
 
WAGO is far more then just "Cage Clamp" terminals, from relays to signal isolators to Ethernet modules and so on. And note they have a cage clamp rated 200A that is rather impressive.

Competitors Weidmuller, Phoenix amongst others have been promoting the advantages of cage clamp for over a decade. For the panel builders out there you need to look at the technology.
 
Ranch said:
WAGO is far more then just "Cage Clamp" terminals, from relays to signal isolators to Ethernet modules and so on. And note they have a cage clamp rated 200A that is rather impressive.
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We are not talking about the same thing, many electricians use 'WAGO' as slang for any spring loaded push in connector.

in-sure.jpg


Push in connectors

If there is a 200 amp version of these I don't want to use it. :)
 
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