I know you can replace 2-prong with 3-prong GFCI, but can you replace 2-prong with a 3-prong dual function AFCI/GFCI outlet?

[cameronkanachki]

We’re updating the last seven 2-prong outlets in my house to 3-prong this week. We can’t afford adding a full-on ground wire to the outlets, so we’re having a licensed electrician come out & replace them with 3-prong GFCIs.

However, I have come aware of dual function AFCI/GFCI receptacles. If I’m correct, these add more protection. My question is: Can I replace my old 2-prong receptacles with dual function AFCI/GFCI receptacles? I believe it should since I saw it mentioned in one posting about AFCIs, & since it has GFCI protection, it follows the recent NEC. Can anyone confirm if this is the case?

 

[ActionDave]

Upon further review it has been decided that since there will be an electrician doing the work the thread can be open to discussion under the context of code requirements.

 

[LarryFine]

Suggest to your electrician that one GFCI receptacle can protect all of the downstream receptacles.

There is no reason to spend the money on labor or materials to replace them all. None.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Yes a dual Gfci/afci will give the protection you need plus the afci protection.

 

[tom baker]

The NEC requires any replacement receptacles to meet requirements of currently adopted NEC. This means GFCI, AFCI, TR or WR. Are your new devices TR?
This requirement was first in the 2014 NEC

 

[ramsy]

Michigan has AFCI amendments, making dual-function devices optional.

Contractors that don't need AFCI's may not possess the skills required to get them working.

 

[ActionDave]

I would never put AFCIs in a house unless required. Skills got nothing to do with it, the breaker itself can nuisance trip with perfectly wired circuits.

 

[Rick 0920]

When using AFCI devices, there may be some additional requirements that need to be met per NEC 210.12. Limitations on length of home runs and the home run to installed in conduit or MC cable. I'm with Dave, avoid these if you can. I still think they are more trouble than they're worth.

 

[hbiss]

Keep in mind also that you can just replace the breakers with GFCI's and do the same thing. I understand though that that may not be possible with older panels.

You would then replace the receptacles with regular grounding receptacles but leaving the ground screws unconnected. You are then supposed to put a label on the receptacle indicating that there is no equipment ground which you would have to do anyway if replacing the receptacles with GFCI receptacles.

Forget AFCI's, they are useless and do nothing except cause headaches.

-Hal

 

[mtnelect]

I am glad that I am not doing this anymore. You install these new devices, then you get calls from your customers that they are always tripping.

So, you have contracted with the owner to install GFCI/AFCI receptacles, then they call you that they are not working.

Until the NFPA realizes that these devices are not compatible with old "Romex" wiring, you are SOL.

 

[mtnelect]

This whole idea that you can upgrade ungrounded "Romex" to protected "GFCI/AFCI" is "BS". The receptacle shows a ground connection, but it doesn't exist. Who are you fooling !

 

[curt swartz]

I am glad that I am not doing this anymore. You install these new devices, then you get calls from your customers that they are always tripping.

So, you have contracted with the owner to install GFCI/AFCI receptacles, then they call you that they are not working.

Until the NFPA realizes that these devices are not compatible with old "Romex" wiring, you are SOL.

Huh? What does the age of the NM cable have to do with anything? I have installed AFCI & GFCI protection on older NM cable and have never had a problem.

 

[mtnelect]

Huh? What does the age of the NM cable have to do with anything? I have installed AFCI & GFCI protection on older NM cable and have never had a problem.

In my mind, it is "BS" it's an "Illusion" there is no ground connection. I guess it is magic.

 

[LarryFine]

This whole idea that you can upgrade ungrounded "Romex" to protected "GFCI/AFCI" is "BS". The receptacle shows a ground connection, but it doesn't exist. Who are you fooling !

It should show no ground. You're using a receptacle or solenoid tester and not a voltmeter, right?

Any NM w/G added should not have the EGCs connected to anything; each other, receptacles, etc.

A GFCI device will function properly with no EGC at all, as long as it's supplied by a grounded source.

 

[mtnelect]

It should show no ground. You're using a receptacle or solenoid tester and not a voltmeter, right?

Any NM w/G added should not have the EGCs connected to anything; each other, receptacles, etc.

A GFCI device will function properly with no EGC at all, as long as it's supplied by a grounded source.

It must be magic !

 

[mtnelect]

When I look at a "Happy Face" receptacle, I should expect a ground.

 

[LarryFine]

When I look at a "Happy Face" receptacle, I should expect a ground.

That's what the little stickers are for.

 

[jap]

When I look at a "Happy Face" receptacle, I should expect a ground.

What's a "Happy Face" receptacle?

A 5-15R receptacle that hooked up with a L-1530R and created this,,,,



JAP>

 

[PaulMmn]

Suggest to your electrician that one GFCI receptacle can protect all of the downstream receptacles.

There is no reason to spend the money on labor or materials to replace them all. None.

Will provide the convenience of not needed a 3-to-2 adapter at the downstream outlets...

 

[LarryFine]

Will provide the convenience of not needed a 3-to-2 adapter at the downstream outlets...

Correct. The GFCI allows grounding receptacles as replacements for non-grounding ones.