I-Line Panelboard breakers

[SceneryDriver]

I'm trying to make heads or tails of a Square D I-Line panelboard, and the breakers I need for it. I have an 800A 120/240 panel, and I'm looking to add a 2-pole 200A breaker, and a 1-pole 60A breaker.

I've attached photos of the panelboard and and existing 200A breaker that's already installed.

The 200A breaker is easy since one is already installed: Q222200ACH However, I'm finding that it seems to be discontinued; is there a current offering for this panel? Schneider's website is less than helpful.

I'm also looking for a compatible 1-pole 60A breaker for a large 120V load. Do single pole breakers for this I-Line panelboard exist? My Google-foo is weak tonight.



Thanks,

SceneryDriver

 

[jim dungar]

The Q2 line was replaced by the QB and QD lines. Make sure you confirm the AIC requirement, the Q222xxxH was rated 22kAIC @ 240V single phase.
The single pole breakers used to be FY and FA, but they have been replaced by the B and H families.

 

[steve66]

If you look on pages 44 and 46 of square d's digest:

https://download.schneider-electric.com/files?p_enDocType=Catalog&p_File_Name=0100CT1901_SEC-09.pdf&p_Doc_Ref=0100CT1901_SEC-09

you can see the breakers Jim is referring to. For example, the BD, BG, and BJ breakers are available in 1, 2 or 3 pole versions, with ratings up to 125A. (The BG and BJ have higher interrupting ratings.) They take 1.5" of mounting space per pole.

 

[SceneryDriver]

I've had need to revisit this as the client has finally decided to move forward with the project. I still can't make heads or tails out of Schneider's part number scheme. I'm loathe to call our local supply house for help - it'll be never ending calls from their Sales guy if I do.

I just can't figure out the differences between QB, QD, BD, BG, BJ, etc... breakers. Google is rather useless, it seems.

I need a 2-pole 200A breaker with a 22KAIC rating, and a 1-pole 60A breaker with a 22KAIC rating. I wouldn't think this would be so difficult; is there a cheat sheet for dealing with I-Line panel boards I'm missing?


Thanks,

SceneryDriver

 

[electrofelon]

I've had need to revisit this as the client has finally decided to move forward with the project. I still can't make heads or tails out of Schneider's part number scheme. I'm loathe to call our local supply house for help - it'll be never ending calls from their Sales guy if I do.

I just can't figure out the differences between QB, QD, BD, BG, BJ, etc... breakers. Google is rather useless, it seems.

I need a 2-pole 200A breaker with a 22KAIC rating, and a 1-pole 60A breaker with a 22KAIC rating. I wouldn't think this would be so difficult; is there a cheat sheet for dealing with I-Line panel boards I'm missing?


Thanks,

SceneryDriver

Take a look at the link from post #3 starting on page 51. First see what frame size you are dealing with. A given family is not going to cover all sizes. For example, a B family is 15-125A, and a LA is 125-400 amp. Also note the voltage level. Some such as Q frame are 240V only. The part number scheme starts with letters, typically family then the second often indicates the interrupting rating. The first number is the poles, the second is the max system voltage (2=250, 4=480, 6=600), the third fourth and fifth are amp rating (don't forget the zero if under 100).

 

[electrofelon]

So looks like a QDA22200 is what you need. Note you have to select phase arrangement for 2 pole i-line breakers. I assume since this is single phase you would want and A-B breaker, but someone should confirm.

 

[SceneryDriver]

So looks like a QDA22200 is what you need. Note you have to select phase arrangement for 2 pole i-line breakers. I assume since this is single phase you would want and A-B breaker, but someone should confirm.

Thanks! That's what I was missing. I'll have someone onsite confirm the AB phasing. I've also figured out that I need the BDA14060 p/n for my 60A 1-pole circuit. That's proving to be a hard to find critter. Looks like I'll have to endure the repeated sales calls from the supply house guy for a week or two. I don't often deal with I-Line panelboards directly; my job typically starts at the cam-lok connectors at the company switch.

Thanks again,

SceneryDriver

 

[electrofelon]

Thanks! That's what I was missing. I'll have someone onsite confirm the AB phasing. I've also figured out that I need the BDA14060 p/n for my 60A 1-pole circuit. That's proving to be a hard to find critter. Looks like I'll have to endure the repeated sales calls from the supply house guy for a week or two. I don't often deal with I-Line panelboards directly; my job typically starts at the cam-lok connectors at the company switch.

Thanks again,

SceneryDriver

For more options with the 60, remember you can always use a 2 or 3 pole since they would be much more common and could very well be cheaper. Also try and FA family, many of the online breaker houses still have new FA breakers. I'm actually just about to get a fa34045 from one of the online places. About $300 new surplus.

What are you needing a single pole 60 for?

 

[SceneryDriver]

For more options with the 60, remember you can always use a 2 or 3 pole since they would be much more common and could very well be cheaper. Also try and FA family, many of the online breaker houses still have new FA breakers. I'm actually just about to get a fa34045 from one of the online places. About $300 new surplus.

What are you needing a single pole 60 for?

I need a 60A 120V feed for a slip ring that will feed power to a revolving stage. Once through the slip ring, it will be broken out to (4) 20A 120V circuits. The decision was made to use a large 120V feed (as opposed to a 120/240V feed), so that a lifted neutral from a damaged slip ring shoe couldn't damage any connected equipment (sound equipment, etc...). They'd rather have it turn off than go up in smoke. Nice added benefit is that I'm not sure I would've had room for a fourth slip ring pole in the limited room under the stage.

I just found this:

Square D BDA160601 Circuit Breaker. I Line. Single Pole. 60 Amp. New. | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Square D BDA160601 Circuit Breaker. I Line. Single Pole. 60 Amp. New. at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Seems like it would work nicely.


SceneryDriver

 

[kwired]

2 pole was mentioned but keep in mind with an I line panel you need to designate which bus a single pole breaker connects to also.

 

[electrofelon]

2 pole was mentioned but keep in mind with an I line panel you need to designate which bus a single pole breaker connects to also.

Yeah i mentioned this post #6, but what I wasn't sure of would it be AB for a single phase I line panel? Also would a three pole fit in a single phase I line? I don't recall ever working on a single phase I-line.

 

[kwired]

Yeah i mentioned this post #6, but what I wasn't sure of would it be AB for a single phase I line panel? Also would a three pole fit in a single phase I line? I don't recall ever working on a single phase I-line.

Don't think they make a single phase I line panel. Whenever I used one on single phase one bus was unused and you made sure to order breakers that plug onto the buses you are using.

They do make ABC and CBA three pole breakers as well. Never realized this til more recently.

Is being a little picky IMO but to be code compliant you need to use ABC on the left side of panel and CBA on right so that they are arranged ABC top to bottom when in use. Place I work around the most that has several I line panels has nothing but ABC for all the three pole breakers.

 

[electrofelon]

Don't think they make a single phase I line panel. Whenever I used one on single phase one bus was unused and you made sure to order breakers that plug onto the buses you are using.

They do make ABC and CBA three pole breakers as well. Never realized this til more recently.

Is being a little picky IMO but to be code compliant you need to use ABC on the left side of panel and CBA on right so that they are arranged ABC top to bottom when in use. Place I work around the most that has several I line panels has nothing but ABC for all the three pole breakers.

It appears you are correct. Found this from the Schneider website:

"

Resolution:
Yes. Order a standard I-Line panel and only order breakers that are phased A-C.

NOTE: The bus stack will consist of 3 bus bars. I-Line bus bars cannot be removed for single phase application due to the configuration of I-Line circuit breakers.

So OP needs an AC breaker. I assumed it would be AB but was wrong.

 

[kwired]

I think you could use any two of the buses, but A C seems to be suggested. They are supposed to be designed for 600 VAC. I don't think 240 volts between AB and nothing on C is really going to be much of an issue.

 

[electrofelon]

I think you could use any two of the buses, but A C seems to be suggested. They are supposed to be designed for 600 VAC. I don't think 240 volts between AB and nothing on C is really going to be much of an issue.

Not sure if you can order them single phase and it will just not have a lug on the B phase. Even if so I don't see why you couldn't move it.

 

[jim dungar]

Is being a little picky IMO but to be code compliant you need to use ABC on the left side of panel and CBA on right...

No you do not.
The NEC phasing requirements has to do with the bus bars, not device lugs.

 

[kwired]

No you do not.
The NEC phasing requirements has to do with the bus bars, not device lugs.

I wondered about that also but never had looked into it to confirm. Pretty sure they can be ordered CBA though and is what got me thinking about it when I discovered that.

 

[jim dungar]

So OP needs an AC breaker. I assumed it would be AB but was wrong.

I think the A-C phasing recommendation is an attempt at consistency with 3-phase 4-wire center-tapped delta systems, where the NEC requires the high leg to be the B phase.

 

[jim dungar]

I wondered about that also but never had looked into it to confirm. Pretty sure they can be ordered CBA though and is what got me thinking about it when I discovered that.

Look at article 408.

Some customer request the CBA breakers but that is their design choice. I do not know of any distributor that kept these breakers on their shelves for sale to the general public.

 

[kwired]

I think the A-C phasing recommendation is an attempt at consistency with 3-phase 4-wire center-tapped delta systems, where the NEC requires the high leg to be the B phase.

Have to look to see if code mentions it, but at very least seems to be common to use center bus as the grounded if it is a corner grounded delta. Don't run into this often enough to be well versed on it. Mostly have run into it on irrigation equipment and on older installs, all new around here is either wye or open delta with high leg where other conditions sort of make it necessary to go open delta. Those old corner grounded always had a slug in the fuseholders of the grounded phase and was pretty much always center phase in disconnects. One farmer kept blowing a fuse many years ago and decided to swap the offending fuse with the slug on disconnect at the pole. Said he later had fire on the transformer bank at top of the pole, decided to switch the slug back to original position before calling POCO. I was only like first year apprentice back then, but remember him telling this story to my boss.