IBEW advice and how to get in

[hillbilly1]

There are 3 options, and the worst is definitely last...

1) join the union if possible. The training is more methodical. But as noted above, you might only learn to bend pipe. I know one like that. 10 years in the trade and didn't even know which direction to weap wires around device screws. Dang. Benefits are good. Work can be sparse at times. No unassisted thinking allowed.

2) get a job as a non-union helper. The training is more anecdotal. Learn a bit of this and a bit of that. You could still get stuck doing one job if you don't have some discernment. Pay and benefits might be lower, but you might also have more freedom.

3) the very worst thing is to get desperate and sign up for trade school with no experience. As one former boss put it - they'll teach you anything you want to know out of the book, then you'll go out and hurt yourself with a screwdriver
For real, I beg guys to never take this desperate route. I have never EVER met anyone who went to trade school first, then turned out to be a good electrician.

I have noticed that about the Union, the short time our company was with them, they seem to specialize in certain things, you have the pipe runners, beautiful work, but set them in front of a transformer, and they are lost. Same way with a controls guy, do have them bend any pipe. Excellent training, but too narrow of scope, but I disagree with the trade school route, I went to trade school, kept pissing off the teacher because I would catch him on mistakes! If you really want to learn, you can at a trade school, but really depends on where you go. I set up a training board at a private trade school, and the teacher was more of a low voltage guy that an electrician.

 

[Ken_S]

3) the very worst thing is to get desperate and sign up for trade school with no experience. As one former boss put it - they'll teach you anything you want to know out of the book, then you'll go out and hurt yourself with a screwdriver
For real, I beg guys to never take this desperate route. I have never EVER met anyone who went to trade school first, then turned out to be a good electrician.

This is nonsense, there are great trade school programs out there taught by individuals with real world experience, my son is now in a shared time high school program taught by a successful electrical contractor, and he'll be better off for it when he is done. In fact in the second year of that program the students can go out and actually work for contractors.

At the end of the day you'll be the type of electrician you want to be, based on what you want out of the trade, and what you put in.

 

[2phases]

There are 3 options, and the worst is definitely last...

1) join the union if possible. The training is more methodical. But as noted above, you might only learn to bend pipe. I know one like that. 10 years in the trade and didn't even know which direction to weap wires around device screws. Dang. Benefits are good. Work can be sparse at times. No unassisted thinking allowed.

2) get a job as a non-union helper. The training is more anecdotal. Learn a bit of this and a bit of that. You could still get stuck doing one job if you don't have some discernment. Pay and benefits might be lower, but you might also have more freedom.

3) the very worst thing is to get desperate and sign up for trade school with no experience. As one former boss put it - they'll teach you anything you want to know out of the book, then you'll go out and hurt yourself with a screwdriver
For real, I beg guys to never take this desperate route. I have never EVER met anyone who went to trade school first, then turned out to be a good electrician.

1) If I didn’t make it in the second time around, would you really suggest waiting to get in? I believe it would be worth it in the long run but who knows how long that can take. I don’t want to be 30 yrs old and still be working in the warehouse. The guy that would pick me up seems like an absolute stand up guy and he liked me from the start, but he knows I’m not there to be in his warehouse. I’m there to work my way up, and he can’t legally do that for me unless the union allows it. I need a career sooner than later, if that makes sense, because I’m 24 and I want more from myself and life.
2) The non union guy is a master electrician and told me he would let me do stuff and would help me get an apprenticeship, he told me he pays his top guys $42 hr with benefits which is really good.
3) I realize I can learn electrical on my own, but really understanding the theory behind it seems to me absolutely crucial. I don’t want to work on electrical and not fully understand why I’m doing it. I interviewed the school, it’s SEMCA, the instructor are all master electricians and most of them are working still. The curriculum is both hands on and book work, it seems good to me. In all seriousness, how else would I learn electrical theory and the why behind it.

 

[AC\DC]

Go with whoever gets you the job experience first. Learn as you go.

 

[James L]

This is nonsense, there are great trade school programs out there taught by individuals with real world experience, my son is now in a shared time high school program taught by a successful electrical contractor, and he'll be better off for it when he is done. In fact in the second year of that program the students can go out and actually work for contractors.

At the end of the day you'll be the type of electrician you want to be, based on what you want out of the trade, and what you put in.

How can my own experience and observation be nonsense?

That's like me saying I woke up at 5am and you call it nonsense

I don't know about other areas, but I don't know anybody who's any good doesn't wants any help from a Vatterott guy.

We have one school here, it's for non-union helpers who are learning the technical side of the stuff they have their hands on during the day. I worked with guys who went there after they started working...

https://www.abcksmo.org/?utm_campaign=Local&utm_content=Directory-Profile&utm_source=google&utm_medium=GMB

Maybe there's a lical chapter near the OP
It's not "trade school first"
It's an apprenticeship

 

[James L]

1) If I didn’t make it in the second time around, would you really suggest waiting to get in? I believe it would be worth it in the long run but who knows how long that can take. I don’t want to be 30 yrs old and still be working in the warehouse. The guy that would pick me up seems like an absolute stand up guy and he liked me from the start, but he knows I’m not there to be in his warehouse. I’m there to work my way up, and he can’t legally do that for me unless the union allows it. I need a career sooner than later, if that makes sense, because I’m 24 and I want more from myself and life.

My experience with the union was that they favored blue bloods - sons of the sons of union guys. I don't know about where you're at, but if I bombed out twice, I'd shake the dust off my feet and move on

2) The non union guy is a master electrician and told me he would let me do stuff and would help me get an apprenticeship, he told me he pays his top guys $42 hr with benefits which is really good.

If there's a non-union apprenticeship, that's pretty solid. Don't look for $42 any time real soon. But it's nice to know the ceiling.

3) I realize I can learn electrical on my own, but really understanding the theory behind it seems to me absolutely crucial. I don’t want to work on electrical and not fully understand why I’m doing it. I interviewed the school, it’s SEMCA, the instructor are all master electricians and most of them are working still. The curriculum is both hands on and book work, it seems good to me. In all seriousness, how else would I learn electrical theory and the why behind it.

If you can learn the bookwork at the same time your hands are on it, it'll stick much better, imho.

Believe me, I've met guys who have 3 months experience, but their bookwork is year 3 or 4

And they're confused.
Troubleshooting is a nightmare for them because they have no real basis for trying to understand what problem they're looking for.

They're slow slow slow at wiring because they've never had any new construction experience to ingrain in them an efficient method.

In all honesty, non-union apprenticeship is my recommendation

 

[GoldDigger]

When I did hiring for an electronics manufacturer back in the late 70's I interviewed three times to hire an electronics tech. I hired from a tech school each time and the only one who worked out well was guy who had prior work experience (in Vietnam). The other two were academically qualified and did ok on test and interview, but just did not have what it took to work independently.

 

[ramsy]

And I quit smoking weed, cigarettes, and alcohol about 6 months ago because I want this that bad.

Your power with the pen, & documentary skills will be intimidating to any contractor/organization that enjoys indentured indemnity.

You are clearly articulate, literate, and capable of reporting events / accidents accurately. You are a witness.

Construction sites can be crime scenes, which must hire people who either prevent accidents, or can't articulate their way out of a wet paper bag.

If you interview the way you write, you blew it already.

 

[petersonra]

When I did hiring for an electronics manufacturer back in the late 70's I interviewed three times to hire an electronics tech. I hired from a tech school each time and the only one who worked out well was guy who had prior work experience (in Vietnam). The other two were academically qualified and did ok on test and interview, but just did not have what it took to work independently.

What a shock that something that probably takes a little experience to gain would not be had by somebody who had no such experience.

Personally I would rather hire somebody with an education and give him a year to get some experience under his belt rather than hire somebody with no experience and hope he gets educated somehow. Chances are it will never happen. If you go the first route after a year you will have an educated guy with experience. If you go the second route you will have a guy with experience but nowhere to go. There are some places that like that because they want people who are stuck in the jobs they have and can never advance. It's certainly easier on the boss because he never has to hire anybody else, or at least thinks the guy is stuck there forever. Generally doesn't work out that way

 

[lordofthisworld]

I apologize for the essay, if anyone is willing to give advice I would really appreciate it. I’m trying to get into the IBEW union local 58, Michigan. I had my interview with them in November and was not accepted. Previous to the interview I called every single contractor in their region, over 50, asking for a position in the warehouse or literally anything and they all couldn’t accommodate me at the time. I got my CPR, chauffeurs license, and OSHA certificate. I spoke with the head of NECA in my area before the interview as well asking what I could do to increase my chances. At the time of the interview I actually had an interview with one of the guys I spoke with and he asked if I had done any schooling or experience and I told him I did not. As I have no schooling or experience. Since then I’m joining an electrical school in January and I’m going to re apply in the 90 days. However my question is this. I recently called one of the union contractors and he offered me a position as a stock boy in his warehouse. Also I found another non union contractor that offered me a position as his “apprentice” and he would let me work on anything. I’m debating on which one I should take. The union guys pros are that I can tell the interview board I’m working for one of your contractors but the cons is I that I will only learn about equipment and tools of the trade. The non union guys pros is that I will learn all hands on when it comes to electrical and I’ll get to do that full job but his cons is that he isn’t connected to the union.

Now the interview board told me that I lacked experience and schooling, the schooling I figured out but with experience the only one that will give me that is the non union guy, but I just don’t know how big of a deal and how much weight it holds to tell the interview guys I work for a union contractor, because all I would be doing is working in his warehouse sweeping and organizing the shop. I realize I have to start at the bottom and have no issue with that but I wonder what job would help me the most?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thank for your time.

Alex

If I was you, I will just go and fill out an App at a non-union shop since they will hire u with no experience. As u get experienced then check back in to the union and see what is going on. The downfall is if u get the opportunity to get into the union after getting a year or two under your belt, u might have to do your schooling all over again through their schooling even though u already put in a couple years.

 

[Sea Nile]

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thank for your time.

At your age, and if you qualify (Health, criminal record, aptitude) I would join the military. All branch's have electrician, but I think Navy has the best - * do your own research... But you would get training, hands on experience, and the Montgomery GI Bill to help with additional certifications after you get out. Montgomery GI bill has changed, they now cover trade schools and certain certifications. Plus you'll get veterans hiring preference and it gives you time to figure out what to do with your life if you decide electrician is not what you want. I was in a dead end job as well and that's why I joined, it was the best decision I ever made.

 

[petersonra]

At your age, and if you qualify (Health, criminal record, aptitude) I would join the military. All branch's have electrician, but I think Navy has the best - * do your own research... But you would get training, hands on experience, and the Montgomery GI Bill to help with additional certifications after you get out. Montgomery GI bill has changed, they now cover trade schools and certain certifications. Plus you'll get veterans hiring preference and it gives you time to figure out what to do with your life if you decide electrician is not what you want. I was in a dead end job as well and that's why I joined, it was the best decision I ever made.

Unfortunately he admits he has a history of drug use which might be a problem

 

[Sea Nile]

A lot of people who have used recreation drugs have got in the Army. Many of whom even get a security clearance. For security clearances, what they want to know is if you are subject to blackmail and are you capable of being honest. I used to be a recruiter for a short time so I know. Yes, it's true that if you "admit" to it, then it can limit you to some jobs choices in the Army, (at least that's how it was when I was a recruiter) and it can definitely hurt you if you lie and when they do your security clearance background check and one of your references tells on you. Hard drugs are a big problem for the military for sure. The question really becomes is something going to pop up when they do a police records check. Think long and hard about what you tell the recruiter, and more importantly what admit to when you go to MEPS, but marijuana is not a show stopper.

 

[tallgirl]

So, I learned most trades from my parents who were part-time GCs when we were kids, and became full-time GCs when they retired and moved away.

Most of my residential wiring experience came from volunteering with Habitat for Humanity, as well as some other organizations, and even an individual or two. There are plenty of people who get their initial experience in construction trades that way. I don't know how Michigan works, but in Texas you could get an apprentice permit and work under whatever UJ or Master there was for the site. Since it's frozen season in Michigan, there may not be much of that activity going on, but believe it or not, HFH is one of the largest home builders around. Whenever construction resumes, after the ground thaws out, they will be building houses somewhere near you.

An advantage of going that route to start gaining experience is everyone who works with them expects you to know nothing at all, and they are generally speaking very willing to teach. Even if you do get on sweeping floors in a warehouse, I'd look for ways to do that so at least you are learning something. Additionally, volunteer work just looks good, especially if you're doing something in a field you want to get into. As an aside, I also worked with apprentices in the IBEW Local 520 program who were picking up additional experience doing volunteer work. "I hate tossing pizzas" doesn't look as good as "I did everything I could, including working for free, to get into this field."