ICF (Insulated concrete forms)

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appology accepted.

infinity I will look some links and send/post a pic of a building in process. this is the only brand that comes to mind this early is logix this is the link to their web sit http://www.logixicf.com/ I hope it works as I have never posted a link on this site before. The plastic pieces i was discribing before the are what the dry wall is fastened to. I believe on logix they are 1/4 thick and 1 1/2 wide but the specs should be on there web page. I will check out some other brands at the local aggregate company.
 
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I've done maybe 10 ICF homes. All of them I used 1900 shallows, 1/2" mudrings, and sleeved the NM in EMT. I use a hot knife to cut into the foam and stub the NM slightly above ceiling height with a bushing. My new trick was using the higher grade (less expanding) spray foam and glued the boxes and EMT into the ICF. When the AHJ saw it at first he said he didn't like it. I told him to rip the pipe and box out of the ICF. He couldn't do it. Shook my hand and stickered the job.:D
 
I looked closely at the product slide show, only about 50 more question came to mind. :)

I've never worked with the stuff. But how would one attack the main panel, does one have to consider built up finish walls, or preset rods straight of structural framing infoam, or drill back to the Core wall later?
How does the interstructure transpose the load to the out structure?

Is the whole house done with this to the Roof truss? Bold! The whole house is one of those desired emergency structures...
 
cschmid said:
I have lots of questions as well? Still wondering if anyone has discussed this in the code making process?
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Do you see any specific issue(s) with this type of installation?
 
I think he's concerned with three things:

1. Placing the NM next to the concrete itself (334.12(A)(9).
2. Placing the NM too close to the surface 300.4(D).
3. Supporting the cable 334.40.
 
480sparky said:
I think he's concerned with three things:

1. Placing the NM next to the concrete itself (334.12(A)(9).
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Shouldn't be a problem if not embedded within the concrete.

480sparky said:
2. Placing the NM too close to the surface 300.4(D).
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Not an issue if 1.25" away from any framing member. NM cable can be run just behind the back surface of drywall.


480sparky said:
3. Supporting the cable 334.40.
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May be an issue if the inspector will not accept the cable supported in a shallow groove in the Styrofoam.
 
I do have issues with the NM in this installation. no protection from physical damage. Support is where? Staples don't hold in foam and I don't believe a nail stuck in the foam to hold it in place is cool either. If you groove the foam, which I see no other way, and you get it to close to the concrete you expose the NM to moisture which also opens up the spot for mold as well. There really is no framing members just short pieces of plastic to secure what ever you are mounting too. The grooves amount to being some form of wire way, because they carry more than one set of conductors kind of like a gutter I would think but I really have no idea what you would call it. If we look at it from a purely residential stand point it seems pretty much a non issues as long as you and the inspector are in agreeable with the installation. I personally prefer conduit and foam to fill the grooves back up. conduit you can support on the concrete. I am just curious of what others think. I might think it is bigger issue than what it is. Foam emits toxic gas when burned and it burns well. I just have never thought about burning a piece of the form to see how it burns and have not read anything on that aspect either. I don't know if it is a major issue, yet it is a lethal one if it burns in a house fire. Especially for fire fighters and the environment as well. Them are some of my thoughts on it and Yes I still think it is a good building method.
 
cschmid said:
Foam emits toxic gas when burned and it burns well. I just have never thought about burning a piece of the form to see how it burns and have not read anything on that aspect either. I don't know if it is a major issue, yet it is a lethal one if it burns in a house fire. Especially for fire fighters and the environment as well. Them are some of my thoughts on it and Yes I still think it is a good building method.
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This is why some jurisdictions require it to be covered with 'rock whether it's finished or not. I have come across that requirement more than once. HO builds a new home, and doesn't want to finish the basement yet, but must cover the foam with sheetrock. Makes finishing the basement a lot harder later on.

My method is to use a hot knife with a custom blade. I got it at a local boat/marine store. I cut a slot down from the top at each location (recep, switch) and run the NM from the joists down to the box (usually a 1900 with mud ring). The depth is just shy of the concrete, so there's a little bit of foam still there. I then take the strips of foam I cut out and slice a bit off the back, then use a little non-expanding spray-can foam to secure it back into place.
 
I am doing a bid on a 5000sq ft home that has icf walls cut into hill for bottom floor, main floor with garage are stick frame. Do you guys that have done these see a significant time and material difference. Do you bid these different than a normal wood frame, percentage wise?? Any info would be appreciated. TIA
 
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