Idaho Electrical Board

[jwelectric]

Any thoughts on this?

 

[raider1]

Very interesting read. Thanks for posting it.

I am not suprised to see that Idaho has choosen to amend out the expansion of the AFCI requirement. I live about 30 miles from the Idaho boarder and alot of my students live and work there, so this is good to know.

Chris

 

[celtic]

I didn't like:

1. The Board Members voted unanimously to adopt 406.11 as written in the 2008 National Electrical Code. (Kiddie proof recpts)
2. The Board members supported the new requirement for combination-type AFCI devices, being assured by the manufacturers of these devices that they have been thoroughly tested and are reliable, and they will be available in the marketplace when and where needed.
3. One part of Section 210.12 that Idaho apparently will not(accept) is the expansion of AFCI protection to most circuits serving living areas in a dwelling. ...

Why didn't I like these?
#1 ~ It's the parents (and I am a father of 2 little kids) responsibility to maintain a safe household for their off-spring. TP devices "sounds" like a good thing..but what's next..legislation that requires us to bubble wrap every sharp point in our homes? What's wrong with those little plastic do-dads that are a b*tch for even a parent to remove from a recept.?

#2 ~ "being assured by the manufacturers" ..maybe this will become a non-event anyway?

#3 ~ Do it or don't! One area is just as susceptible to arc fault as another.
#3A ~ The Boards logic here baffles me:

...the Board members seemed uncomfortable with the prospect of being the first jurisdiction in the West to implement all of the changes incorporated in the 2008 NEC

What???
If they don't belive the product will live up to it's marketing, DON'T ACCEPT IT. Not wanting to be "first" is not a strong vote of confidence.
#3B ~ Baffled again...

There was also speculation that the Governor would not accept any code change that could significantly impact the cost of construction in a soft housing market.

I thought the idea was to SAVE homes with these products? I guess it's ok to let a few homes sizzle in a "soft market"...it might spur some additional economic growth

I really have no opinion on the last point: " Finally, the Board accepted a proposal to revert to the 2002 NEC wording for bonding of swimming pools per 680.26..." as I have never, and don't intend, to get into wiring pools.

 

[peter d]

I hope other states follow suit.

If I were to build/remodel a home for myself, and assume that I could pick and choose from these new NEC rules, I would not install any AFCI's, but I would install the TP receptacles.

 

[wireman71]

Not sure Idaho even needs the NEC.. Last I heard you didn't even need to have journeyman to run a company in Idaho.. Half kidding but I've seen some sketchy companies with more apprentices than journyman over there.

 

[brian john]

Heck who knew they had electricity in Idaho.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Time was when codes were adopted, any added local ammendments were more restrictive, or safer. Seems now local ammendments are less restrictive.

Maybe the NEC panels need to do a little soul-searching and get back to basics.

 

[raider1]

Not sure Idaho even needs the NEC.. Last I heard you didn't even need to have journeyman to run a company in Idaho.. Half kidding but I've seen some sketchy companies with more apprentices than journyman over there.

Idaho doesn't have a master electricians license.

You are required to have a journeymans license to operate an electrical contractors business.

Idaho has a pretty comprehensive journeymans test.

Chris

 

[M. D.]

I thought the idea was to SAVE homes with these products? I guess it's ok to let a few homes sizzle in a "soft market"...it might spur some additional economic growth

.

I'm not so sure they would sizzle ,.. and the cost impact on the market is real.
This is from a hearing back in 2004 discussing the impact on the market

Volume I NFPA Standards council Meeting July 14 2004

My name is Jeff Inks with National Association
of Home Builders.....
To give you an idea, talking about
the cost impact before, for every, I'll toss it out, for every $1,000 you increase the cost of a house, you are knocking of 250,000 potential home buyers out of the market, that is home buyers, potential home buyers in that medium price income range. You take that to actual number of buyers currently looking for a new home at the time that cost
increase occurs, you're knocking out around 25 to 30,000
buyers from that new home by raising that by $1,000.
It has a very, very real impact. And a lot of
logic -- and it makes common sense to say if you can
afford 202, you can afford 203, if you can afford 203,
you can afford 204. That's simply not the case. We all know in our own experience with lenders in the banking system, they draw the line. That's what happens when
you add these costs, the line gets drawn, knocking more and more people out of the market.

 

[paulyoung]

Idaho does have a master license but as of right now there is no incentive to have one. In order to get a EC license you must be,or have on your payroll a journeyman with at least 2 years experience. The Electrical Board has been working for several years to get legislation passed that would require a masters license to be an EC, and it looks as if it may actually happen within the next year or so.
I am glad to see that they won't go with the AFCI expansion, kind of dissapointed about the childproof receps but can live with that(like I have any choice), and I'm with Celtic on the whole swimming pool issue.
By the way this is my first post but I have been lurking and learning from you guys for quite a while.
Paul

 

[peter d]

By the way this is my first post but I have been lurking and learning from you guys for quite a while.
Paul

Welcome to the forum. As you probably already know, there is a vast amount of knowledge available here. I've learned more here than any other place.

 

[M. D.]

Paul don't be afraid to lay it out here ,... I had a teacher ,we all did probably , that said "the only stupid question is the one not asked."

This is a great place for us to challenge our most deeply held beliefs and traditions, in short jump right in, there is no water in this cyber pool , there ain't no pool either , so no chance of drowning ..

 

[wayni]

Idaho doesn't have a master electricians license.

It does. In fact, they are considering making it mandatory for a master to pull permits for an EC. See below for more explanation.

You are required to have a journeymans license to operate an electrical contractors business.

You do not need any license other than a contractor's license to run a shop in Idaho. You do have to have a signing journeyman to pull permits and perform the work, however. The board was considering amending this to require that a master electrician to pull permits but I think that may have been shot down.

Idaho has a pretty comprehensive journeymans test.

Chris

Yes it does. Both journeyman and master electrician tests have recently been revamped.

Just noticed Paul has already clarified this issue.
Wayne

 

[raider1]

How long has Idaho had a Masters license?

I know that they have been talking about making a Masters license mandatory for an electrical contractors license, but didn't know that they already had a masters license avaliable.

I mis-stated the requirement for a journeymans license, you are correct that you only need employ a journeyman to have an electrical contactors license.

Chris

 

[paulyoung]

Chris,
I'm not sure what year they created the masters license. I've had mine since 2001 and I know it was around for at least a couple years before that.
After I passed the test and went to get my license the head of licensing told me at that time there were only just over 100 masters statewide, primarily because,as I stated earlier there is no incentive to having one. I expect all that will change if and when the contractors requirement changes.


Paul

 

[paulyoung]

Chris,
I just looked on the state website and there are currently 320 licensed masters in Idaho. The earliest issue date I found was 1986 so it has been around for a while.

I also noticed a lot of Oregon addresses on the list and this reminded me that I saw somewhere that Oregon was concerned that many OR journeyman were taking the ID masters and using the reciprocity agreement to get an OR supervisors license. Don't remember where I saw this but I will try to find it and verify.

Paul

 

[George Stolz]

Paul don't be afraid to lay it out here ,... I had a teacher ,we all did probably , that said "the only stupid question is the one not asked."

This is a great place for us to challenge our most deeply held beliefs and traditions, in short jump right in, there is no water in this cyber pool , there ain't no pool either , so no chance of drowning ..

Indeed.

View attachment 859​

 

[raider1]

Chris,
I'm not sure what year they created the masters license. I've had mine since 2001 and I know it was around for at least a couple years before that.
After I passed the test and went to get my license the head of licensing told me at that time there were only just over 100 masters statewide, primarily because,as I stated earlier there is no incentive to having one. I expect all that will change if and when the contractors requirement changes.


Paul

Thanks Paul,

I live in Utah, but am only 30 miles from the Idaho border. I have a few apprentices from Franklin county that are in my apprenticeship classes so I need to know about Idaho licensing. I was aware that Idaho is trying to implement a masters license requirement for an electrical contactors license. I believe this is to bring Idaho close to the Utah requirements.

What area of Idaho do you live in?

Chris

 

[paulyoung]

Chris,
Glad to help.
I'm located in the Boise area (Meridian specifically).
Just curious why you have Idaho apprentices in your class?
I also found the reference I was thinking about dealing with the Oregon supervisors license.It was in the minutes from the May Electrical Board meeting. I'll try and paste it here.

Oregon Reciprocity Agreement Oregon electricians, unable to pass the Oregon Supervising Electrician exam, are applying for the Idaho Master Electrician exam. Once passed, they reciprocate to Oregon where they continue to work.
The Oregon Electrical and Elevator Board would like to review Idaho?s Master Electrician exam to determine whether the exam is substantially similar to Oregon?s Supervising Electrician exam.
Al Caine and staff will revise the Oregon/Idaho Reciprocity Agreement for clarity OR create verbiage for an Administrative Rule.

Thanks
Paul

 

[raider1]

Thanks Paul,

Just curious why you have Idaho apprentices in your class?

Due to the fact that the closest electrcial apprentice school in southern Idaho is in Pocatello, it is closer for apprentices in Franklin county to come to school in Logan Utah then travel to Pocatello. The school that I teach for is accepted by the state of Idaho for apprenticeship training. Idaho also accepts the CEU's from the classes I teach.

Meridian is a nice area, my wife has a close friend that moved there a few years ago.

Chris