Ideal # 65 Wire Nuts

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viclibo

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I am pigtailing an entire house using the Ideal # 65 wire nut and want to see if anyone recommends not using the wire nut on the neutral or ground leads. I always do it this way but want some feedback. I do not need info on why not to use this wire nut. Thanks in advance.
 
viclibo said:
I am pigtailing an entire house using the Ideal # 65 wire nut and want to see if anyone recommends not using the wire nut on the neutral or ground leads. I always do it this way but want some feedback. I do not need info on why not to use this wire nut. Thanks in advance.
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I think they have been some bad press around this forum
 
LarryFine said:
Wow! I didn't know they were rated for that many conductors. :wink:
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That's funny.

As a youngin I was instructed to make up all the boxes on a rough by putting all the blacks and whites together...that's exactly what I did. KABOOM!!! Oops. :D


What is a #65 wirenut anyway ?
 
[FONT=arial, Arial, Helvetica]Taken from this site
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[FONT=arial, Arial, Helvetica]Burned Purple (Ideal #65) Wirenuts found in the field[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, Arial, Helvetica]CAUTION: Many electricians, who are not COPALUM certified, recommend other repair methods. While these repair methods are less expensive than COPALUM crimp connectors, we agree with the CPSC that these repairs are considered unacceptable and "does not solve the problem of overheating present in aluminum branch circuits."[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, Arial, Helvetica]?Pigtailing with the Purples?[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, Arial, Helvetica]The most often suggested unacceptable repair; ("pigtailing") involves attaching a short piece of copper wire to the aluminum wire with a twist-on connector sometimes called a wire nut (IDEAL Purple #65); the copper wire is connected to the switch, wall outlet or other termination device. The Commission staff has evaluated the effectiveness of "pigtailing" as a repair. In CPSC-sponsored laboratory testing, some brands of twist-on connectors have performed very poorly. Accordingly, from what we have seen in the field, we agree with the Commission staff and can validate the laboratory testing in believing that this method of repair does not solve the problem of overheating present in aluminum branch circuits.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, Arial, Helvetica]At best we consider the proper application of Purple Wirenuts a temporary repair. However, being that this wirenut is filled with a flammable oxide-inhibitor and the manufacturer has stated that this wirenut is NOT INTENDED FOR A COMPLETE HOME RETROFIT, (http://www.inspect-ny.com/aluminum/i65debat.htm) we believe it is best to leave aluminum wiring alone until such a time as it can be permanently repaired via re-wiring or COPALUM crimping.[/FONT]
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Dennis Alwon said:
[FONT=arial, Arial, Helvetica]Taken from this site
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Burned Purple (Ideal #65) Wirenuts found in the field
CAUTION: Many electricians, who are not COPALUM certified, recommend other repair methods. While these repair methods are less expensive than COPALUM crimp connectors, we agree with the CPSC that these repairs are considered unacceptable and "does not solve the problem of overheating present in aluminum branch circuits."
?Pigtailing with the Purples?
The most often suggested unacceptable repair; ("pigtailing") involves attaching a short piece of copper wire to the aluminum wire with a twist-on connector sometimes called a wire nut (IDEAL Purple #65); the copper wire is connected to the switch, wall outlet or other termination device. The Commission staff has evaluated the effectiveness of "pigtailing" as a repair. In CPSC-sponsored laboratory testing, some brands of twist-on connectors have performed very poorly. Accordingly, from what we have seen in the field, we agree with the Commission staff and can validate the laboratory testing in believing that this method of repair does not solve the problem of overheating present in aluminum branch circuits.
At best we consider the proper application of Purple Wirenuts a temporary repair. However, being that this wirenut is filled with a flammable oxide-inhibitor and the manufacturer has stated that this wirenut is NOT INTENDED FOR A COMPLETE HOME RETROFIT[*1], (http://www.inspect-ny.com/aluminum/i65debat.htm) we believe it is best to leave aluminum wiring alone until such a time as it can be permanently repaired via re-wiring or COPALUM crimping.
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Who is the "we"?

*1
9/28/95
At the meeting the manufacturer clarified that while their new twist-on connector has been listed under UL486C, this device is not intended for general aluminum wiring retrofit. The new connector is intended for limited special applications involving (only) certain aluminum-to-copper splices such as the addition of a new device (eg. ceiling fan) to a house wired with aluminum. The manufacturer is reviewing its marketing and instructional literature in order to clarify the intended use.
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I did not find any other reference to "the manufacturer has stated that this wirenut is NOT INTENDED FOR A COMPLETE HOME RETROFIT" than this statement.


3/29/96
Independent Tests indicate Ideal-65 purple Twist-on retrofit connector fails UL 486C Safety Standard despite its UL-listing
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(both quotes from inspectNY site)


...and yet, it retains a UL label?
http://www.idealindustries.com/media/pdfs/products/ideal_ul_listed_combinations.pdf (Top of pg. 7)


Seems to me the jury is still out on this....therefore it is allowed.
If I am wrong and there is information more current than 10/20/97 - PLEASE post it.
 
I think the "we" is a group that has spent a bunch of money becoming COPALUM certified and want to scare up some more business.
 
iwire said:
I think the "we" is a group that has spent a bunch of money becoming COPALUM certified and want to scare up some more business.
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Could be.

I kind of only "half-trust" inspectny ...at least with the FPE issue there was a legal action that went favorably for the plaintiffs.
 
celtic said:
Who is the "we"?
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The we, I believe, is some EC from colorado. [FONT=arial, Arial, Helvetica]Aluminum Wire Repair, Inc.[/FONT]

..and yet, it retains a UL label?
http://www.idealindustries.com/media/pdfs/products/ideal_ul_listed_combinations.pdf (Top of pg. 7)
Seems to me the jury is still out on this....therefore it is allowed.
If I am wrong and there is information more current than 10/20/97 - PLEASE post it.
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My intent was not to argue the UL but rather to throw out a bit of caution. The purples may not be the answer, or perhaps those were made by a few bad ec. We have seen the same problems with bad copper joints.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
My intent was not to argue the UL but rather to throw out a bit of caution.
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That may be the case Dennis, but this:

[FONT=arial, Arial, Helvetica]Burned Purple (Ideal #65) Wirenuts found in the field[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, Arial, Helvetica]CAUTION: Many electricians, who are not COPALUM certified, recommend other repair methods. While these repair methods are less expensive than COPALUM crimp connectors, we agree with the CPSC that these repairs are considered unacceptable and "does not solve the problem of overheating present in aluminum branch circuits."[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, Arial, Helvetica]?Pigtailing with the Purples?[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, Arial, Helvetica]The most often suggested unacceptable repair; ("pigtailing") involves attaching a short piece of copper wire to the aluminum wire with a twist-on connector sometimes called a wire nut (IDEAL Purple #65); the copper wire is connected to the switch, wall outlet or other termination device. The Commission staff has evaluated the effectiveness of "pigtailing" as a repair. In CPSC-sponsored laboratory testing, some brands of twist-on connectors have performed very poorly. Accordingly, from what we have seen in the field, we agree with the Commission staff and can validate the laboratory testing in believing that this method of repair does not solve the problem of overheating present in aluminum branch circuits.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, Arial, Helvetica]At best we consider the proper application of Purple Wirenuts a temporary repair. However, being that this wirenut is filled with a flammable oxide-inhibitor and the manufacturer has stated that this wirenut is NOT INTENDED FOR A COMPLETE HOME RETROFIT, (http://www.inspect-ny.com/aluminum/i65debat.htm) we believe it is best to leave aluminum wiring alone until such a time as it can be permanently repaired via re-wiring or COPALUM crimping.
[/FONT]
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....looks like fear mongering to me.


I do like this part:
....we believe it is best to leave aluminum wiring alone until such a time as it can be permanently repaired via re-wiring or COPALUM crimping.
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:smile:

Rewiring or COPALUM being the only solution to, what is accepted as, a known problem with AL/AL or AL/CU connections [no debate from me there] .
 
viclibo said:
I am pigtailing an entire house using the Ideal # 65 wire nut and want to see if anyone recommends not using the wire nut on the neutral or ground leads. I always do it this way but want some feedback. I do not need info on why not to use this wire nut. Thanks in advance.
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viclibo, Why not the neutral or ground ?
 
rabtrfld said:
I'm guessing that Neutral & Ground don't connect to device terminals, so they don't need copper pigtails. So The original Al-Al joints can be left alone.
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so how does he wire up a receptacle with no ground or neutral?

~Matt
 
IMO, purple nuts = sham.

I've seen a lot of AL installations and never a standard wirenut failure on a proper connection.
 
220/221 said:
IMO, purple nuts = sham.

I've seen a lot of AL installations and never a standard wirenut failure on a proper connection.
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Probably most in a controlled indoor environment.

Most of the failures I've seen involved excessive moisture, i.e. outdoor installations, panelboards located in poorly insulated exterior walls etc.
 
220/221 said:
IMO, purple nuts = sham.

I've seen a lot of AL installations and never a standard wirenut failure on a proper connection.
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I can't say the same thing.

BTW, what is a proper connection for AL/CU?
 
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